The Much Maligned MP4000/5000

[rthonpm]

Only the toner for the MP 4000 has been changed. The developer is still the B296 flavour. Apparently the new version of the toner, at least in North America, can be differentiated by the fact that all three of the Ricoh Family names are on the bottle.
I haven't seen the new toner yet, but I have had very good success with the updated developer unit and changing the modified process control settings back to default.
Once the new toner comes out into the field then I can just change to modifying the old developer units to use the additional filtres in the newer units.

[E Winter]

Wow - this topic has moved to page 5

Well we've swapped all toner in the field now and - so far - the machines are still running. It's too early for beeing excited (I'll see machines running from PM to PM first^^) but as far as I can tell is that the new toner is indeed somehow improved

[Shadow1]

You know, when Ricoh announced the new toner I started planning a massive party - Live bands, beer by the keg, maybe even a stripper. When they started saying the old stuff had a "chargability" problem I canceled it. It's amazing it builds up such a charge that it sticks just as if it had too much wax and prematurely fused to the mag roller. Hmmm...

I'm hoping this is the engineer's version of "we really did fix the problem, but we just couldn't admit the guys in the field have been right for the last 2+ YEARS while we just sat on our collective a$$ and let our customers suffer, so we had to come up with some techincal BS cover story"

Given that, I figure it's got about a 50/50 shot of actually running like it should. No matter what, I don't think it will work as well as the B079 toner/developer - My reasoning: You could actually vacuum the old stuff up - the new PxP toners are fused to the cabinetry as soon as it touches, so the inside of the machine always looks dirty no matter how you clean it, and the updated toner still doesn't vacuum well.

[E Winter]

Did I put the words "improved" and "new toner" together in the same post? Bad idea...

Today I got a call (MP5000 light copies). This machine has been modified with the new toner (according to the latest RTB including cleaning the mag roller, toner hopper, toner recycling canal, restoring SP settings..... you know this stuff) during the last visit @ ~45k prints.

Well, almost one month and 30k prints later the copies became light again and the mag roller was completely coated like it happened with the old toner type

Summary:

Ricoh's QA kicks ass ..... so the next improved toner is getting a "B" suffix? Well, there's still some headroom left in the alphabet.

Or was it just tough luck?

[Shadow1]

Ricoh's QA kicks ass ..... so the next improved toner is getting a "B" suffix? Well, there's still some headroom left in the alphabet.

Lets hope it was a fluke, but in the mean time since I only gave it 50/50 to begin with let's do the math: it took well over 2 years for Japan to say that it is in fact a bad toner formula causing the problem and change it to something else that does not work. You have to figure it will take a while longer for them to pull their head out of their a... the sand, and come up with yet another formula that does not work. Even assuming they are using a Latin alphabet instead of Cyrillic we have a long way to go before they hit Version W(orking).

[stephend]

The dev unit was the new type? What is the monthly cycle of the machine?
Product support guide shows an average of 20K/ month. When I contacted tech support and reported that one of my customers runs 55K/month with 60% coverage....the answer was short...."wrong machine installed for that specific environment...contact sales dept for an upgrade..."

[E Winter]

Even assuming they are using a Latin alphabet instead of Cyrillic we have a long way to go before they hit Version W(orking).

hilarious...

The dev unit was the new type? What is the monthly cycle of the machine?

It's the new dev unit (according to the RTB that's shouldn't be imprtant anymore) and the monthly printing volume is currently ~30k with mostly low coverage.

[paulg]

hilarious...



It's the new dev unit (according to the RTB that's shouldn't be imprtant anymore) and the monthly printing volume is currently ~30k with mostly low coverage.

Many Techs I know have noticed copies going a touch light on solids with the new magroller with the new toner.. If you put the old mag roller in the issue goes away. I presume due to the different doctor gaps?
I have not montiored any of these devices long term so cant copy on the state of the mag roller.

[E Winter]

The image density is fine on that machine as long as the mag roller isn't coated with melted toner so I suppose it's rather a toner than a mag roller issue.

[Llama God]

Wow - this topic has moved to page 5

I know, I'm rather proud

[tcs04]

Did I put the words "improved" and "new toner" together in the same post? Bad idea...

Today I got a call (MP5000 light copies). This machine has been modified with the new toner (according to the latest RTB including cleaning the mag roller, toner hopper, toner recycling canal, restoring SP settings..... you know this stuff) during the last visit @ ~45k prints.

Well, almost one month and 30k prints later the copies became light again and the mag roller was completely coated like it happened with the old toner type

Summary:

Ricoh's QA kicks ass ..... so the next improved toner is getting a "B" suffix? Well, there's still some headroom left in the alphabet.

Or was it just tough luck?

Iv'e just advised one of our guys to fit new dev and "A" toner to an mp5000 with 32K on the clock!

Think I should say not to bother??!!

We now have 7 machines withe modified dev units running orginal toner and SP settings. When I get time I will check these and report back.

I STILL think the improved breathing in the modified dev unit will at least improve and may cure the problem.

If these units do work I wonder if the filter holder (Part of the unit frame) on the new units can be removed and fitted on the old units? This may enable the new filters and filter covers to also be fitted. If so we could pressure Ricoh to provide these parts as a kit and avoid the cost of (Ricoh!) replacing complete units.

[E Winter]

If these units do work I wonder if the filter holder (Part of the unit frame) on the new units can be removed and fitted on the old units? This may enable the new filters and filter covers to also be fitted. If so we could pressure Ricoh to provide these parts as a kit and avoid the cost of (Ricoh!) replacing complete units.

I think it doesn't make much sense to ask for for any free parts before we can't exactly tell what is solving the problem. We've modified every MP4000/5000/3500/4500 with new toner and (mostly) new developer during the last weeks and collected the old stuff. We have machines with new and old style dev units in the field. I'm shure during the next weeks and months we are going to see how good the new stuff is working.

As far as I can tell is that the first impression I got sucks ass - but like i told that was maybe just bad luck...

[tcs04]

I think it doesn't make much sense to ask for for any free parts before we can't exactly tell what is solving the problem. We've modified every MP4000/5000/3500/4500 with new toner and (mostly) new developer during the last weeks and collected the old stuff. We have machines with new and old style dev units in the field. I'm shure during the next weeks and months we are going to see how good the new stuff is working.

As far as I can tell is that the first impression I got sucks ass - but like i told that was maybe just bad luck...

As you say, time will tell, but it may be something we have to consider asking for if the fault disappears on the modified units.

Not really something I need with the prospect of several Pro c900 installations in the near future!

[JeffS]

I have a couple in the field with the same issue, but I have others that are running great. One machine (mp4000) isn't making it 10k without coating the new mag roller and going light copies.

[DH1980]

New machine, new dev and new toner - still has coating on mag roller at 50k-80k. I hope they field test the next model before bringing it to market.