MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

[orestesp]

Hi everyone,

Ran into a bit of a mishap today - machine asks for the toner bottle to be exchanged thinking it's empty (while in fact it is not) and the density keeps dropping after running a couple of hundred A4 pages with text on them.

I have verified that the toner bottle rotates and toner is indeed getting into the developing unit since running forced toner supply brings the density back to where it's supposed to be.

My suspicion is that process control is bringing the image density down - using forced toner supply to bring ID back up and verifying by priting a checker flag test pattern and THEN running process control and printing the same pattern again ID goes down the drain. I should also mention that after running process control I get bad Vsp/Vsg values, something like 4.19 V and 0.23 V instead of something closer to ~0.40 V

Should I bring it back where it's supposed to be with forced toner supply and then re-initizialize the toner density sensor? Nevermind, now it constantly asks for toner and won't let me out of the toner empty screen dialog!

Any ideas on how to proceed? Thanks!

[mrwho]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Check if the density sensor under the drum is covered in toner. Also, there's a density sensor on the toner hopper that might be disconnected or failing.

[Codex]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Hello

Do you use OEM toner and developer?... We have still some Mp6000 on the field, i had some issues with the magnetic rollers, or the toner feed clutch (but if you force toner supply the image remains "dead" in that case).
Try to check/change TD sensor. Dont forget to check also the transfer unit, sometimes a wornout belt or a dirty bias roller causes light copies.

Inviato dal mio SM-S901B utilizzando Tapatalk

[slimslob]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Could be a number of things:

1. The sensor on the side of the toner hopper could be bad or disconnected causing the control logic to think the hopper is full when it is actually empty
2. The toner throttle on the output of the bottle holder is closed
3. The toner bottle motor is not rotating the bottle
4. The metering holes on the bottom of the hopper are clogged
5. One time I have had the toner add motor go bad.

[mrwho]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Also, and first: Make sure this part is opened before inserting the bottle.

1.jpg

[orestesp]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Thanks to everyone for posting.

An update: the machine is stuck at the "add toner" error screen, it will keep rotating the bottle for the predetermined amount of time it does when toner runs out and you've just replaced the bottle but then it will ask for toner over and over again. I managed to get past it by re-plugging the sensor near the inlet of the toner hopper/developing unit, the machine was severely overtoned. I tried running a few dozen checker flag test patterns with the door jigged and the toner bottle removed so as to get the density back to normal... it worked but then we got back to where we started - it kept asking for the toner bottle to be replaced.

I believe that the toner supply mechanism works as intended but the machine cannot detect that toner is being added to the hopper, would that mean that the sensor (pic related) needs to be replaced? Any way to test it/can I see its output in service mode?

Check if the density sensor under the drum is covered in toner. Also, there's a density sensor on the toner hopper that might be disconnected or failing.

The density sensor under the drum is clean, I just replaced the drum and gave it a clean (it was clean anyway but it wouldn't hurt to give it a quick wipe with a damp cloth). I suspect the toner density sensor (also called the toner end sensor?) is the culprit - I'll explain.

Hello

Do you use OEM toner and developer?... We have still some Mp6000 on the field, i had some issues with the magnetic rollers, or the toner feed clutch (but if you force toner supply the image remains "dead" in that case).
Try to check/change TD sensor. Dont forget to check also the transfer unit, sometimes a wornout belt or a dirty bias roller causes light copies.

Inviato dal mio SM-S901B utilizzando Tapatalk

Yes OEM toner and dev... dev is currently at ~160 k, replaced a year and a half ago approximately. The only non-OEM part in the machine is the drum but it was bought from a reputable local dealer and the IQ is good if I push the density back up with forced toner supply. The transfer belt has some mileage in it... I do not know exactly when it was replaced - it is the only part of the machine that I haven't serviced since I got it.

Could be a number of things:

1. The sensor on the side of the toner hopper could be bad or disconnected causing the control logic to think the hopper is full when it is actually empty
2. The toner throttle on the output of the bottle holder is closed
3. The toner bottle motor is not rotating the bottle
4. The metering holes on the bottom of the hopper are clogged
5. One time I have had the toner add motor go bad.

The hopper seems to have toner in it (at least from the hole visible when you pull the assembly that holds/rotates the toner bottle). The auger/screw visible seems to rotate periodically (i.e. not continuously as I am used to in my Konica machine) - not sure if this indicates that the clutch that engages it is failing or if it's just the way the machine works. The white plastic "pin" that pulls the toner bottle is open and rides on a sheet metal guide as it's intended, I also checked that it is not bent out of shape and that it opens all the way.

The shutter that you can close manually I verified that it's indeed open. As I explained, it appears that the machine appears to be adding toner but not registering it.

Also, and first: Make sure this part is opened before inserting the bottle.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]61417[/ATTACH]

Seems to be this way, I might take a quick photo of it tomorrow so a more experienced eye can have a look.

sensor.jpg

[mrwho]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Seems to be this way, I might take a quick photo of it tomorrow so a more experienced eye can have a look.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]61420[/ATTACH]

Yep, that was one of the sensors I was talking about - I think it is similar to the one on the developing unit - if you don't have a spare and if they're alike and the connectors are the same, maybe you can swap them to troubleshoot the problem.

[slimslob]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Thanks to everyone for posting.

Yes OEM toner and dev... dev is currently at ~160 k, replaced a year and a half ago approximately. The only non-OEM part in the machine is the drum but it was bought from a reputable local dealer and the IQ is good if I push the density back up with forced toner supply. The transfer belt has some mileage in it... I do not know exactly when it was replaced - it is the only part of the machine that I haven't serviced since I got it.

OEM or Genuine Ricoh? There is a difference. If it is not Genuine Ricoh it can cause problems.

The hopper seems to have toner in it (at least from the hole visible when you pull the assembly that holds/rotates the toner bottle). The auger/screw visible seems to rotate periodically (i.e. not continuously as I am used to in my Konica machine) - not sure if this indicates that the clutch that engages it is failing or if it's just the way the machine works. The white plastic "pin" that pulls the toner bottle is open and rides on a sheet metal guide as it's intended, I also checked that it is not bent out of shape and that it opens all the way.

The shutter that you can close manually I verified that it's indeed open. As I explained, it appears that the machine appears to be adding toner but not registering it.

Pull the development unit out and remove the hopper from the top. Place the hopper on a sheet of paper and turn the drive coupling for the toner add. It should dispense toner across the entire length of the holes in the metering plate. There are 2 drive couplings on the hopper. One for the toner separator at the top front and the waste toner auger. It is driven by the waste toner system. You want to use the other one. It drives the dispensing shaft.

Seems to be this way, I might take a quick photo of it tomorrow so a more experienced eye can have a look.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]61420[/ATTACH]

That is the toner level sensor. It controls the operation of the toner bottle motor. It determines the level of toner in the hopper and turns the bottle motor on if the level is too low. If it continues to detect the level is too low for more than a fixed number of bottle rotations it then assumes the bottle is empty.

[Codex]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

As slimslob said... It can be a problem on the toner Level sensor... You can try an input check to see if the sensor works. Or you can open the tpner hopper, remove the toner inside and reassemble everything. If the sensor works the machine will start to fill the hopper again. So you can rule out the sensor.

Inviato dal mio SM-S901B utilizzando Tapatalk

[stani]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

i had a problem on some different martini machines by the same customer, im my case the problem came about 200 copies after new toner bottle was inserted. The machine turned heavily overtoned but printed not black, but grey. I suppose the toner was stored in too hot environment. Removed all the toner from hopper and cleaning unit, new ordered toner and new developer solved the problem. (all original ricoh parts and supplies). In some cases could use the old developer after many black/gray copies pulling old toner from the developer.


Gesendet von meinem Mi 9 SE mit Tapatalk

[orestesp]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Here's a photo of the thing that the toner bottle goes into.

OEM or Genuine Ricoh? There is a difference. If it is not Genuine Ricoh it can cause problems.

Pull the development unit out and remove the hopper from the top. Place the hopper on a sheet of paper and turn the drive coupling for the toner add. It should dispense toner across the entire length of the holes in the metering plate. There are 2 drive couplings on the hopper. One for the toner separator at the top front and the waste toner auger. It is driven by the waste toner system. You want to use the other one. It drives the dispensing shaft.

That is the toner level sensor. It controls the operation of the toner bottle motor. It determines the level of toner in the hopper and turns the bottle motor on if the level is too low. If it continues to detect the level is too low for more than a fixed number of bottle rotations it then assumes the bottle is empty.

All parts are genuine Ricoh parts except from the OPC drum cylinder which I is 'compatible' but from a reputable local Ricoh dealer. Rotating the shaft causes toner to readily fall/dispense, also the hopper seems to have a healthy amount of toner in it.

As slimslob said... It can be a problem on the toner Level sensor... You can try an input check to see if the sensor works. Or you can open the tpner hopper, remove the toner inside and reassemble everything. If the sensor works the machine will start to fill the hopper again. So you can rule out the sensor.

Inviato dal mio SM-S901B utilizzando Tapatalk

I really believe it is the sensor PN B247 5311... does service mode have a specific I/O check mode for this? if so, what value/readout should I expect if the sensor is healthy and what if it's bad?

i had a problem on some different martini machines by the same customer, im my case the problem came about 200 copies after new toner bottle was inserted. The machine turned heavily overtoned but printed not black, but grey. I suppose the toner was stored in too hot environment. Removed all the toner from hopper and cleaning unit, new ordered toner and new developer solved the problem. (all original ricoh parts and supplies). In some cases could use the old developer after many black/gray copies pulling old toner from the developer.


Gesendet von meinem Mi 9 SE mit Tapatalk

I do not think that would be the case, I am storing the toner bottles for this machine in the same place as a bunch of other, it's the middle of winter here and it never gets hotter than 35C inside the shop, even in summer.


toner bottle.jpg

[slimslob]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

I do not think that would be the case, I am storing the toner bottles for this machine in the same place as a bunch of other, it's the middle of winter here and it never gets hotter than 35C inside the shop, even in summer.

Are the toner bottles being stored lying down flat or standing up on end. If the bottle is lying down, the toner will compact in the bottom and will not flow out properly unless shaken 2 or 3 times a week.. Lying flat is the recommended method but should still be shaken monthly. Most people, even dealers, store toner standing up as they take up less shelf space that way.

[stani]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

the part in the middle, mrwho mentioned to be open, is not open on your photo. You can open the toner bottle manually and carefully insert the open toner bottle in its place. If you get proper density, than this part in the middle is the reason of your problem

Gesendet von meinem Mi 9 SE mit Tapatalk

[orestesp]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

Are the toner bottles being stored lying down flat or standing up on end. If the bottle is lying down, the toner will compact in the bottom and will not flow out properly unless shaken 2 or 3 times a week.. Lying flat is the recommended method but should still be shaken monthly. Most people, even dealers, store toner standing up as they take up less shelf space that way.

I think the label on the bottle recommends storing the bottle standing up. I always give the bottle a good shake before putting it in the machine.

the part in the middle, mrwho mentioned to be open, is not open on your photo. You can open the toner bottle manually and carefully insert the open toner bottle in its place. If you get proper density, than this part in the middle is the reason of your problem

Gesendet von meinem Mi 9 SE mit Tapatalk

Yes indeed... I am just not sure on how to do this without making the bottle 'explode' with toner all over my face? Is there something wrong with those 4 flaps that open and grab the nipple in the bottle or are they just stuck?

[orestesp]

Re: MP6000 Density Drops After ~200 Copies

added a couple of teaspoons of toner directly into the toner hopper and voila, the machine was happy again, so obviously the toner end sensor is good.

something's wrong with the toner bottle holder assy as it won't deliver toner to the hopper, any ideas on where to begin? the bottle does rotate but no toner is dispensed.