5560 - for graphic design

[kazuyamishima]

hi guys

i would like to know what opinion you guys have for the ricoh 5560, I had problems with my brand new 821DN and ricoh portugal proposed to me a 5560 with finisher, etc etc i dont know if it brings the Fiery E-7000 or any fiery.....iam going to teste the machine for 5 days in my office....

I would like to know if 5560 can print better than my Xerox Docucolor12, graphic detail and fill, and off course the Black.....and the composed black ( 100% Cyan, 100% magenta,100% Yeallow and 100% Black)

i really dont know if the 5560 comes with fiery or not....is there many diference in quality printing or just iin color quality (real colors)


please guys give some help

thank you

Nuno Manuel Alves

[iMind]

[kazuyamishima]

thanks iMind

i work with pantones but its only 10 % of my work the other 90 % its color made.... so if the fiery its ony for color then it will be ok i think, my major concern is the graphics and fill, my 821 DN she couldnt draw a circle or a simples line ....humpffff listen iMind where can i buy a fiery for my 5560 if i resolve to take it? and whats the price do you have any idea??? not new offcourse ..... one last question...do you think she could print better then my xerox dc12 ??


thanks

best regards

nuno manuel alves

[Shadow1]

No Question - the machine produces much more vibrant color than your old brand X machine, and does it much faster.

There are 2 different print configurations on that box - the cheapest is the Ricoh GW controller, and it works fine for most people. Better actually, because the fiery has its own set of issues, and is much more complex.

The Fiery (and there are 2 different models that can be attached depending on what features you need) is only really needed if you do a lot of PMS color matching or need some of the advanced print management features. Beware though, there is a lot that goes into the care and feeding of either of the Fiery's that can be attached to this machine.

[kazuyamishima]

No Question - the machine produces much more vibrant color than your old brand X machine, and does it much faster.

There are 2 different print configurations on that box - the cheapest is the Ricoh GW controller, and it works fine for most people. Better actually, because the fiery has its own set of issues, and is much more complex.

The Fiery (and there are 2 different models that can be attached depending on what features you need) is only really needed if you do a lot of PMS color matching or need some of the advanced print management features. Beware though, there is a lot that goes into the care and feeding of either of the Fiery's that can be attached to this machine.

[Herrmann]

First at all...the mpc 5560 and the newer mpc6000 are "buisiness maschines" even with a fiery rip attached, so have that in mind. Btw.: if i remember correctly, you can not attach a Fiery afterwards, you have to order the maschine with a Fiery. Second: Ricoh Maschines have a problem reproducing blue tones, there are always magenta streams shining thrugh. If you want real good Color reproducing, especially in pantone colors, change to canon CLC 4040/5151 with at least a H1 Rip attached, or go for a Bizhub 5501/6501 with at least IC 408 rip.

[Avalon]

5560 Production ?

Well said Herrmann,I was reading this thread thinking everybody had gone mad,a 5560 in a production environment would be a total disaster.Canon CLC4040 would be ok,Konica C6501 5501 would be better.Just check the threads for the Mpc6000 and poor solids,toner and dev issues should convince you this isn't an option either.

Make the right choice and everything will be fine,the wrong one and life will turn pear shaped.

These opinions are based on the fact I work on all the forementioned machines.

Good luck Mark

[Shadow1]

I'm gonna have to take issue with that - point for point:

ANY machine short of a Pro C900, iGen, or NexPress is a disaster in a production print environment, and to be honest, any tech working on any machine in a print shop including these deserves combat pay and has my sympathy. Ask me how I know...

Second, not all Ricoh machines have the blues - or rather the not so blues. I believe you're referring to the blue-green and teal color shift problems that were notorious on the earlier CL3800 and CL7000. The 5560 and MPC6000 do not have this problem, and make very good color. The 5560 does have some continuous tone fade problems when the ConTone area runs with the paper travel for long streaks at high densities, and more "color drift" than I would like to see on long runs, but this has been fixed on the MPC6000 (and a whole slew of other problems were introduced - most of which are a pain for the tech not the customer) Unfortunately, the "Halo" problems are not completely resolved

Also remember that no CMYK printer of any process can reproduce the full spectrum of colors available on an RGB monitor, and that all the different print technologies will give a slightly different percieved color because of the surface texture they leave behind. (Offset and inkjet the most translucent, and therefore most dependant on paper type, toner and oil fusers usually give a more glossy finish, toner and dry fusers are flat to medium gloss but still with good color, sublimated dye printers have great "photo" finishes but are way too expensive and slow for production, and Ricoh's GelSprinters... well, they won't smear, and... ummm... they won't smear. Still need more work on the ink formula to get the color up.)

Speaking of fusers, neither of these machine like large quantities of heavy or coated stock paper. Had a print shop run 30k+ enamel coated paper on a 5560 - it ate 2 belts and an exit gate with all the jams, and the stench was unbelievable. (These machines use a wider nip to lower fusing temp, but this combo does really bad things to some of the chemicals in certain types of paper)

Also, you can add a Fiery to one of these machines at any time, it's just that they are usually sold with the GW controller if they don't have a fiery, and you can't run both at the same time. The tech will have to pull the GW print to put in the fiery interface - not a big project at all.

I have seen samples produced from a Doc12 as well as several Cannon products, and the Ricoh does better - especially compared to the Brand X machine. If you could find an old Ricoh 1350 on eBay... Had really short PM's by today's standards and were totally different from anything "modern", but they could make some great color if the tech knew how to sweet talk it.

[iMind]

First at all...the mpc??? 5560 and the newer mpc6000.

Hehehehe, you Germans are way ahead of the rest of the world. Dito

[kazuyamishima]

[Shadow1]

Tips: First, this machine is only 60ppm in B/W mode - color drops it to 55ppm because it keeps printing its internal calibration patterns on the image belt between copies, and...

Second, If you're running stock heavier than 80gsm, it needs to be in at least Thick1 mode, and most of the paper you mentioned will probably need to be in Thick2, both of which slow the machine down further to allow the toner to fuse properly. On it's slowest speed the machine is still 2-3 times as fast as your old Doc12.

Third, looks like a large part of the jobs you run will be from the bypass tray, as the heaviest stocks won't feed from the trays. This isn't so bad though, the drawers should still handle heaver paper than your old Xerox, and the bypass holds 100 sheets.

As I mentioned before this machine uses a slightly lower fusing temp, but wider nip band to fuse the toner. The longer contact time with the paper causes some stocks to separate and puff up - looks like somebody blew a bubbles inside the paper. I've been able to adjust the fusing temp down about 5 degrees and make it work, just test your stock on a long run before you order big quantities of it.

Lastly, You'll probably discover that you don't really need a Fiery. If you don't need one, you don't want one - they're expensive, and for some reason EFI based it off of an Embedded Windows platform so you have all the trouble that goes along with windows.

Good Luck.

[kazuyamishima]

Tips: First, this machine is only 60ppm in B/W mode - color drops it to 55ppm because it keeps printing its internal calibration patterns on the image belt between copies, and...

Second, If you're running stock heavier than 80gsm, it needs to be in at least Thick1 mode, and most of the paper you mentioned will probably need to be in Thick2, both of which slow the machine down further to allow the toner to fuse properly. On it's slowest speed the machine is still 2-3 times as fast as your old Doc12.

Third, looks like a large part of the jobs you run will be from the bypass tray, as the heaviest stocks won't feed from the trays. This isn't so bad though, the drawers should still handle heaver paper than your old Xerox, and the bypass holds 100 sheets.

As I mentioned before this machine uses a slightly lower fusing temp, but wider nip band to fuse the toner. The longer contact time with the paper causes some stocks to separate and puff up - looks like somebody blew a bubbles inside the paper. I've been able to adjust the fusing temp down about 5 degrees and make it work, just test your stock on a long run before you order big quantities of it.

Lastly, You'll probably discover that you don't really need a Fiery. If you don't need one, you don't want one - they're expensive, and for some reason EFI based it off of an Embedded Windows platform so you have all the trouble that goes along with windows.

Good Luck.