Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

[JDS]

Hello, this copier has been acting up since new. At 80k it went light - restarted Dev correctly (waiting for fuser temp etc) and copies look great.
At 130K light again - full PM done, drum, starter, prim cor assy, itb etc - copies great again.
At 250K light again. When i try SP2207 forced toner the copies do darken. Therefore, i replaced the dev assy, hopper assy, dev motor and clutch assy - restarted once again and all is ok until 330K.
At 330K, light again (4th time) and now its dumping toner too.
I have checked the SMC report values - Vref, Vt, Vsg,Vsp of this machine against other good machines and all values look ok. No SC codes logged either. All restarts have been different batches.
Am really at a loss now so any tips will be appreciated.
I have ordered the PCU assy ( ID sensor etc) and BCU pcb but not sure if this will help.
Thanks very much for any help.

[BLADE]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

there are 2 or 3 sp to change if user is doing heavy coverage or long runs. Did you say there is a clutch in the dev drive assy ? (for my information, I thought maybe it was direct motor drive - not sure)

[JDS]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

there are 2 or 3 sp to change if user is doing heavy coverage or long runs. Did you say there is a clutch in the dev drive assy ? (for my information, I thought maybe it was direct motor drive - not sure)

Thanks for the reply.
No, this customer does not do heavy runs. I've tried reducing SP2209 (toner rate) to 800 or 750 and that hasnt helped at all.
Have also tried reducing SP2201-04 and SP2201-02 (ID sensor pattern) by 50.
On arrival to machine when it was light, these are the values found:
Vref = 2.85
Vref default = 2.5
Vt = 2.86
Vsg = 3.9
Vsp = 0.47
Vd = 805
Vl = +130
SP2209 = 850 (def) - toner rate
Auto process is ON and Toner supply mode is Sensor (all default).
The Dev motor assembly has a clutch inside i noticed.

[Jomama46]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

Those values do not reflect an undertoned machine. Altho it is strange that you can pump the toner to bring it up to snuff.
When you arrive and see light copies, do you run your own prints out of memory to check for fill> Do you write down the Vsp and Vsg on arrival and then again after pumping the toner?
Might be a HVPSU or perhaps a transfer problem.

To answer the comment by Blade. The clutch on the Developer board is for the toner hopper, the bottle drives fills the hopper, and the hopper turns to add toner to the dev. unit.


Are you using OEM supplies?

When you changed the developer did you run the Developer initialization? 2801.

[JDS]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

Those values do not reflect an undertoned machine. Altho it is strange that you can pump the toner to bring it up to snuff.
When you arrive and see light copies, do you run your own prints out of memory to check for fill> Do you write down the Vsp and Vsg on arrival and then again after pumping the toner?
Might be a HVPSU or perhaps a transfer problem.

To answer the comment by Blade. The clutch on the Developer board is for the toner hopper, the bottle drives fills the hopper, and the hopper turns to add toner to the dev. unit.


Are you using OEM supplies?

When you changed the developer did you run the Developer initialization? 2801.

Yes, i use Ricoh parts only for this D062 machine. I perform SP2801 for the dev initialization and then SP 2962 and these execute as usual.
About 1 mt for 2801 and about 2-3mts for 2962.
Internal prints are as light as the copies. When i perform SP2207 (forced toner) the dev fills up and the copies darken. I can execute this upto 3 times and the copies gradually darken. The Vsg and Vsp values dont change much, should they?
Could this mean that my transfer is ok and the laser as well?
In November Vsg and Vsp were 4.03 and 0.43 before and the copies were pretty crappy, after replacing dev assy + motor etc the values were 4.01 and 0.37 and the copies were normal.
I do not have any more experience to start mucking about with more SP modes but i can sure try if anyone knows what they mean.
Thanks.

[Jomama46]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

4.0 for Vsg is bare drum and should be fairly constant until the drum gets more wear but still be in the 4. ~3.7 range. Vsp on the other hand is how the copier judges image density. about .4 is toned up to slightly undertoned but not light. as the number goes lower, maybe to 3.5, that is toned up. 2.0 may be overtoned. The higher the Vsp the less toner is in the mix. at 4.5 you will get complaints.
Always make sure the hopper is full before doing anything else. There is a sensor on the edge of the hopper which tells the bottle drive when to turn on, The hopper should always have plenty of toner in it. The ID sensor tell when to turn on the hopper to add toner to the dev unit.

I think you have an ID sensor either unplugged or defective.

[JDS]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

4.0 for Vsg is bare drum and should be fairly constant until the drum gets more wear but still be in the 4. ~3.7 range. Vsp on the other hand is how the copier judges image density. about .4 is toned up to slightly undertoned but not light. as the number goes lower, maybe to 3.5, that is toned up. 2.0 may be overtoned. The higher the Vsp the less toner is in the mix. at 4.5 you will get complaints.
Always make sure the hopper is full before doing anything else. There is a sensor on the edge of the hopper which tells the bottle drive when to turn on, The hopper should always have plenty of toner in it. The ID sensor tell when to turn on the hopper to add toner to the dev unit.

I think you have an ID sensor either unplugged or defective.

Thank you Jomama46,
Its useful to understand the concept involved in Process Control, thanks for the explanation.
I have ordered the PCU unit (ID sensor etc) and we'll see what happens after that with my values and copy quality.

[Ollie1981]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

Have there been any process related SC codes logged in the history? Especially related to TD sensor/ID sensor?

I have to say I rarely get any weird quality issues as these machines use (in my opinion) one of the best mono engines that Ricoh have ever produced. But with what you've replaced so far you've pretty much already covered development and toner supply.

It might be an issue with either the drum ID sensor and/or potential sensor, both of which will be replaced with the PCU unit. I've had issues with other mono engines running themselves undertoned when either the ID sensor itself is dirty or fauty or (although it definately doesn't apply to this engine due to the location of the Laser assy but check the slitglass isn't dirty) due to toner ingress into the laser unit, fouling the mirrors causing the copy to be light at the point where the ID sensor reads the patch on the drum.

If the PCU fails to cure it, then you're looking at HVPS board, but personally... I must have seen hundreds of these boxes now and have never had to replace a HVPS before.

[JDS]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

Have there been any process related SC codes logged in the history? Especially related to TD sensor/ID sensor?

I have to say I rarely get any weird quality issues as these machines use (in my opinion) one of the best mono engines that Ricoh have ever produced. But with what you've replaced so far you've pretty much already covered development and toner supply.

It might be an issue with either the drum ID sensor and/or potential sensor, both of which will be replaced with the PCU unit. I've had issues with other mono engines running themselves undertoned when either the ID sensor itself is dirty or fauty or (although it definately doesn't apply to this engine due to the location of the Laser assy but check the slitglass isn't dirty) due to toner ingress into the laser unit, fouling the mirrors causing the copy to be light at the point where the ID sensor reads the patch on the drum.

If the PCU fails to cure it, then you're looking at HVPS board, but personally... I must have seen hundreds of these boxes now and have never had to replace a HVPS before.

Thanks Ollie, there arent any SC codes in the history, so no clues there.
The slit glass was cleaned during the PM in November, was quite clean anyway.
Has replacing the ID sensor fixed your light copies immediately? Can you tell if the values of Vsg + Vsp become more normal?
How long does it take before your copies darken after replacing the ID sensor - 100 copies? A few days?
Thank you for the help.

[z_ming]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

Hello, this copier has been acting up since new. At 80k it went light - restarted Dev correctly (waiting for fuser temp etc) and copies look great.
At 130K light again - full PM done, drum, starter, prim cor assy, itb etc - copies great again.
At 250K light again. When i try SP2207 forced toner the copies do darken. Therefore, i replaced the dev assy, hopper assy, dev motor and clutch assy - restarted once again and all is ok until 330K.
At 330K, light again (4th time) and now its dumping toner too.
I have checked the SMC report values - Vref, Vt, Vsg,Vsp of this machine against other good machines and all values look ok. No SC codes logged either. All restarts have been different batches.
Am really at a loss now so any tips will be appreciated.
I have ordered the PCU assy ( ID sensor etc) and BCU pcb but not sure if this will help.
Thanks very much for any help.

hello JDS


DId you find the point ? Could you tell me where the point locate ? i' ve the same issue before . the only thing i can do is cleaned around pcu ,id sensor

every two week ,otherwise it will be lighter and lighter.

[JDS]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

hello JDS


DId you find the point ? Could you tell me where the point locate ? i' ve the same issue before . the only thing i can do is cleaned around pcu ,id sensor

every two week ,otherwise it will be lighter and lighter.

Hello z_ming:
I havent fixed my problem yet, i'm waiting for the PCU assembly

[Max]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

long shot but see if you can turn off process control and change vt ref lower by 0.4/ 0.6 or more (so if it is at 2.8 drop it to 2.3) and see if vt changes to same value as vt ref. In theory toner hopper motor/clutch should engage so it adds toner from toner hopper to dev unit.Since PC is off the dev bias t/s and so on will not be correct so cq may get worse,but all you need to check if vt follows vt ref.If it does then in theory toner supply is working corrct or at least mechanical side of it.

[JDS]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

long shot but see if you can turn off process control and change vt ref lower by 0.4/ 0.6 or more (so if it is at 2.8 drop it to 2.3) and see if vt changes to same value as vt ref. In theory toner hopper motor/clutch should engage so it adds toner from toner hopper to dev unit.Since PC is off the dev bias t/s and so on will not be correct so cq may get worse,but all you need to check if vt follows vt ref.If it does then in theory toner supply is working corrct or at least mechanical side of it.

Thanks Max, i will consider trying this along with another tip which is to change Process Control to Pixel mode and then see what happens to Vt and Vsp etc. Still waiting for the ID sensor though.

[JDS]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

Hello, this copier has been acting up since new. At 80k it went light - restarted Dev correctly (waiting for fuser temp etc) and copies look great.
At 130K light again - full PM done, drum, starter, prim cor assy, itb etc - copies great again.
At 250K light again. When i try SP2207 forced toner the copies do darken. Therefore, i replaced the dev assy, hopper assy, dev motor and clutch assy - restarted once again and all is ok until 330K.
At 330K, light again (4th time) and now its dumping toner too.
I have checked the SMC report values - Vref, Vt, Vsg,Vsp of this machine against other good machines and all values look ok. No SC codes logged either. All restarts have been different batches.
Am really at a loss now so any tips will be appreciated.
I have ordered the PCU assy ( ID sensor etc) and BCU pcb but not sure if this will help.
Thanks very much for any help.

UPDATE: September 2012 - This machine was finally fixed after replacing the Laser Diode assy PLUS upgrading the Engine Firmware - Version 1.67.04 W - came out in May 2012. Thanks to all.

[Masterchief]

Re: Copies gradually go light after 30k - 80k on a Ricoh Mp6001

UPDATE: September 2012 - This machine was finally fixed after replacing the Laser Diode assy PLUS upgrading the Engine Firmware - Version 1.67.04 W - came out in May 2012. Thanks to all.

Cheers for the update and fix, Great job done +1