This aint adding up

[Jomama46]

Ricoh C2050. A couple of cpc customer have complained that the sub-totals for copying and Printing are not adding up to the grand totals for BlackWhite. In other words, the BlackWhite copies and BlackWhite prints are less than the BlackWhite Total . At first I blamed the Fax module but then some showed up that didn't have the fax module. The only time it is an issue is with cpc customers who for each copy/print.
BTW Color counts are OK.
I am at a loss to explain it.
Doc server prints counts as copies, Service mode prints don't count at all.
Somebody run into this?

[RRodgers]

Re: This aint adding up

Are they reading hard meters or soft meters? I'm sure you can do a printout from tech mode to see what is what and see if those add up. I know on the Konica's if a machine sits idle it will count against the PM meter but not against the the copy meter.
GL

[Jomama46]

Re: This aint adding up

They are all electronic meters, if I understand your terminology. There are no mechanical meters in this machine. All of this info in from the meter page they print out and email in to the office. Total BW is 43,615 and Totaling the prints and copies comes to 34,869, a difference of 8746 clicks.

[Eric1968]

Re: This aint adding up

Are they using a rare paper size (like banners or something?). Sometimes machines count banners double, or even triple. Had the same with some Oki color printers where color + b/w was not equal to the grand total. They told me that printing a banner, for example, could count for 3 clicks.

[jonezy999]

Re: This aint adding up

I don't know the answer but I can say I have came across this before on various Ricoh colour machines. The difference has always been below 10K. From what I have seen, it is not just the black that doesn't tally up, sometimes colour is out.
Unfortunately, every time I notice this is when I'm back in the workshop logging off jobs so I can't have a better look through parts counters etc.

[Jomama46]

Re: This aint adding up

Yep, I think I need to get some SP7000s to get more info.

[Counsel]

Re: This aint adding up

Only thing I can figure is are they logs for All users and/or would there happen to be about 8k color prints where the difference in total is the amount of color prints. I know service counters count color prints on the black because color uses black also. I would update firmware anyway even though I didnt see anything it still couldnt hurt. Not sure but is the 11x17 paper count as a double click, I would think though that the print/copy would still reflect the double click, but maybe it doesnt. Odd how it would be for on more then one machine I could see a unique issue but this sounds like a problem with several which to me I would think would be a software issue, it would be hard for all 3-4 customers to be using the same large paper or something else, it would be more likely its the machine when its that many customers with the same issue.

[wfinn]

Re: This aint adding up

Only thing I can figure is are they logs for All users and/or would there happen to be about 8k color prints where the difference in total is the amount of color prints. I know service counters count color prints on the black because color uses black also. I would update firmware anyway even though I didnt see anything it still couldnt hurt. Not sure but is the 11x17 paper count as a double click, I would think though that the print/copy would still reflect the double click, but maybe it doesnt. Odd how it would be for on more then one machine I could see a unique issue but this sounds like a problem with several which to me I would think would be a software issue, it would be hard for all 3-4 customers to be using the same large paper or something else, it would be more likely its the machine when its that many customers with the same issue.

If the machine is setup for developments instead of prints then it will count an 11x17 as a double click. If setup for prints the counters the user can see counts an 11x17 as one click. On the PM counters though it shows up as 2 clicks.

[teebee1234]

Re: This aint adding up

Counsel touched on the answer I believe. When doing a full color copy or print, the black component sometimes is added to the b/w meter and cmy is incremented in the color meter, depending on the setup. That will be an addition to pure b/w prints and copy. You could add the mechanical meters to placate the customer, I don't think the cost would be too outrageous.

[jonezy999]

Re: This aint adding up

Are you guys trying to say a colour print counts as one black click? This isn't true.

[Counsel]

Re: This aint adding up

Are you guys trying to say a colour print counts as one black click? This isn't true.

Ya I dont know for sure on customer side of counters I don't setup/install them or work with cpcs, I do know that from the service side a PM counter will click on the black components when doing a full color item because those components are still used in that process. I was only taking a guess that maybe it was doing the same on the cpc side for some reason.

[jonezy999]

Re: This aint adding up

Ya I dont know for sure on customer side of counters I don't setup/install them or work with cpcs, I do know that from the service side a PM counter will click on the black components when doing a full color item because those components are still used in that process. I was only taking a guess that maybe it was doing the same on the cpc side for some reason.

I get what you are saying now, as in drive counts.

I did however print a counter page from an MPC5000 then copied it in full colour mode and printed new page counter. Only one click added to the colour tally on this box.

I wish I could find some of the counter pages I have that are screwed up so I can go revisit these machines. Pretty slow here today, would be nice to have something to do.

[Polarbear]

Re: This aint adding up

I agree with Jonezy999

I tested the counting on an MPC2500 and it only clicks the colour count when you make a colour copy.

My machine is configured for colour prints (not developments) and A3 double count is on.

[teebee1234]

Re: This aint adding up

There is another place in User Tools to print out a more comprehensive meter list with a detailed breakdown. Not sure at the moment where exactly.

*Sorry I wasn't clear earlier, I was speaking of dev counts.

[Hemlock]

Re: This aint adding up

If the machine is setup for developments instead of prints then it will count an 11x17 as a double click. If setup for prints the counters the user can see counts an 11x17 as one click. On the PM counters though it shows up as 2 clicks.

Exactly what I was thinking.