MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Ricoh bk

[patterson70]

Have a new genuine black toner in this MP C5000 but it is showing on the display in the lower left in small letters: "No toner Black" and then shows "Independent - supplier toner cartridge is set" and then shows "replace toner cartridge black".

The black toner is full and the customer says it is a genuine toner and also tried a second genuine toner and still says the same thing. Has anyone seen this issue before?

I am thinking that it is misreading the chip and thinking it is a non-oem and so it is saying it is empty? The machine will not print or copy and has the directions on how to replace the toner on the display. Can't clear it off. There is the clicking sound from the back (toner pump sound?) upon power up and the same clicking sound when I did a forced toner supply execute procedure from service mode. Looked inside and did not see anything obstructing the toner, it fits easily.

Even if the customer is wrong and it is a non-oem, that should not keep the machine from reading the toner is full, should it? Manufacturers are not legally allowed to prevent 3rd party toner usage anyway.

Has 232K black and only 19K color.

[sandmanmac]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

The "independent supplier" message is not uncommon.
My take on the sequence that leads to it is a toner cartridge being installed prior to the 'toner empty' message, and then the original cartridge being put back in.
Whatever the case, it disappears at the next replacement.
If you like, the message can be disabled as follows:
SP5051 (toner refill detection display)
1 = off
Power off/on

Your other issue is almost guaranteed to be a defective toner pump.

[patterson70]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

Thank you sandmanmac! I will bring out a new black and see what happens. I assume you meant that if that does not work then it will need a toner pump? And if so, have you found them to go out on this model or similar very often? And lastly, if so, is it a bear to replace like on the older models?

[sandmanmac]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

Thank you sandmanmac! I will bring out a new black and see what happens. I assume you meant that if that does not work then it will need a toner pump? And if so, have you found them to go out on this model or similar very often? And lastly, if so, is it a bear to replace like on the older models?

No. I mean you need a toner pump to resolve the "no toner problem", and then when the cartridge is really empty, the message should clear upon replacement. In other words, the message has no relation to your malfunction.
Although, if they are using non-OEm, then that would explain the sequence of events leading up to the pump failure.
The pumps go when they go. I don't have many of of them out, but replacement is a piece of cake: 2 screws, 1 connector, 5 minutes - unless you're doing the hose too.
I generally just make sure to get my vacuum in there and clear it out though

[slimslob]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

May also be a bad RFID chip on the toner bottle or RFID board on the C5000. RFID is reading the remaining toner in the bottle as 0%. Change SP 3045 Toner End Detection from 0 to 1. If the machine functions correctly then this is the problem. If image quality starts to fade or toner low message is displayed, the pump is bad. I usually leave SP 3045 set to 1 until the toner bottle is replaced. Low toner will be displayed when the toner concentration drops too low. After the next bottle replacement, return SP 3045 to 0. If the No Toner message returns, replace the RFID board.

[patterson70]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

Many thanks, I will replace it and post the result once done. You really saved me a lot of time and trouble!

[patterson70]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

Just saw your message after my last reply of thanks, so before I replace it I will try that procedure. You are the man!

[patterson70]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

Oh, that was from Slimbob, so thank you also sir! I will try what you said first and then replace the pump if it does not work. You both are the man!

[Polarbear]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

May also be a bad RFID chip on the toner bottle or RFID board on the C5000. RFID is reading the remaining toner in the bottle as 0%. Change SP 3045 Toner End Detection from 0 to 1. If the machine functions correctly then this is the problem. If image quality starts to fade or toner low message is displayed, the pump is bad. I usually leave SP 3045 set to 1 until the toner bottle is replaced. Low toner will be displayed when the toner concentration drops too low. After the next bottle replacement, return SP 3045 to 0. If the No Toner message returns, replace the RFID board.

This chip and RFID rubbish that Ricoh came up with! If the pump fails, the machine does not know this and will try and add toner as needed. When it cannot add toner it thinks that the bottle must be near empty, then it goes in to toner low state (and writes this to the RFID chip - no matter how much toner is in the bottle!) as the machine has no other way of knowing. Once in toner low state, it starts counting the remaining page state before going into toner end state. Most customers open the door, remove the bottle (feel that there is more than enough toner in) and refit the bottle, but the machine has already "corrupted" the chip so it does not want that bottle back! Fitting a new "Full" toner will have the same effect, as the machine will go through the same cycle - Loading toner..... no toner found (because of faulty pump) .... toner low being written to the chip - now a full bottle of toner is buggered! Expensive excersize!

Argggghhh!

[slimslob]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

This chip and RFID rubbish that Ricoh came up with! If the pump fails, the machine does not know this and will try and add toner as needed. When it cannot add toner it thinks that the bottle must be near empty, then it goes in to toner low state (and writes this to the RFID chip - no matter how much toner is in the bottle!) as the machine has no other way of knowing. Once in toner low state, it starts counting the remaining page state before going into toner end state. Most customers open the door, remove the bottle (feel that there is more than enough toner in) and refit the bottle, but the machine has already "corrupted" the chip so it does not want that bottle back! Fitting a new "Full" toner will have the same effect, as the machine will go through the same cycle - Loading toner..... no toner found (because of faulty pump) .... toner low being written to the chip - now a full bottle of toner is buggered! Expensive excersize!

Argggghhh!

I have never had a bad pump corrupt the RFID chip. If you turn off Toner End Detection and the machine make good copies and continues to do so, the pump is good. It is a simple test to make before going into the trouble of replacing the pump.

[Counsel]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

There are a couple ways I use to check this its been a while since its happened but if it says add toner either the pump is bad or the bottle is mis-read usually you can tell by going into the SP mode and check the Sp related to "toner remaining" if it is says there is toner remaining in the bottle then the machine knows it has not used all of that bottle however is not getting toner this usually means the pump is out. If the toner remaining is about empty but a new bottle was put in then it did not detect the new bottle as a full one in which case the method is to turn off toner detection i think its like SP 3052 or somewhere near there then exit SP and reboot the machine, then go back into the SP and turn the toner detection back on again exit SP (sometimes another reboot is needed) but should now detect the new bottle.

The independent toner supply usually happens because the machine called for toner so the customer put a new one in, then when it still called for toner and they noticed 1st bottle was not empty the put it back in, now that the bottles have been read and then swapped and put back in again the machine in a sense rejects them as being oem bottles and puts up the notification. Once a new unread bottle is put in the message will go away no harm no foul.

On this model its pretty common for the pumps to fail so I would probably just plan to bring one along.

[teebee1234]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

Once the pump is replaced, there is no need to put in a new bottle. The "independent supplier toner" message is just for nagging purposes. The previously inserted and read bottles will still function and add toner as needed, just the customer won't get a low toner warning. When it runs out the machine will stop, then they put in a new one.

*The main reason that the device won't recognize a previously inserted bottle is because it doesn't "know" how much toner is actually in there. It has to know that it's a new 'unread' bottle in order to calculate the amount used and the amount left during the lifetime of that particular bottle. It has no starting point with preread bottle.

[patterson70]

Re: MP C5000 "No toner-black" & "Independent supplier toner is set" but has full Rico

I replaced the pump and installed a new genuine toner and all is well! Really appreciate all the advice and help! I told the customer to wait until the machine says to replace the toner and then he can try the others but that there will be no warning when it is getting low. Whew...