Toner Compatable with xerox 700

[Samxerox]

Hi
I was wondering if anyone knew what toners are cross compatible with a xerox 700.
For example would konica toner tn619 work.
I have a xerox 700 and a konica minolta 1060 and in a pinch I used the developer for the 1060 in my xerox and it worked quiet well.

Any information would be appreciated since I can purchase the konica toner for about half the price of the xerox toner.

[alextech]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

You can Use Toner from the Xerox 550/560/570 for Xerox 700 but you need to replace the CHIP and the Handle (Just take Handle from old Toner and buy Chips from Ebay or Ali*..)
Interchange them here daily in many Machines, no Porblems at all.

Same is for the Drums, they can be used on both Machines but need new Chip...


regards

alex

[Caffeine]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

For example would konica toner tn619 work.
I have a xerox 700 and a konica minolta 1060 and in a pinch I used the developer for the 1060 in my xerox and it worked quiet well.

Any information would be appreciated since I can purchase the konica toner for about half the price of the xerox toner.

Konica toner/developer doesn't work long term. Or even every well short term. If you put Konica developer in and then continued using Xerox toners, that is the only reason you got lucky. The trickle charge of the developer mixed in with the Xerox toner offset the Konica developer enough that you scraped by until it was back to mostly being Xerox developer in the assembly again.

Konica toner doesn't have developer in it, so if you were to switch to it, without trying to compensate for that, it would be a quick and hard fail.

But even by adding developer to the toner, even in the exact correct ratios, it doesn't last more than a few cartridges worth of toner, then it typically destroys the drums which are worth FAR more than the toner...

I've done EXTENSIVE experimentation with Konica toner. Using Konica developer mixed in, using actual Xerox developer mixed in, nothing works very long.

The properties of the Konica toner and developer just aren't quite a match for what the Xerox components are expecting.

(It did work better than all other name brand available options, though. But not for but a few cartridges before requiring a complete system cleanout and ruining some drums.)

Don't even try with the generic "compatible" toners. They are all, absolute garbage. Perhaps they work in the machines that it was designed for, but not Xerox. They just "claim" they work in Xerox. Some of them are so clueless that they think simply because you filled a cartridge and them put it in the machine and printed that it must work. I think you're experienced enough with these big production machines (X700, 1060...) that you know it can take hundreds to thousands of prints before the toner from a new cartridge is FULLY in use. Until that point it will be gradually supplanting the genuine toner that was already in the machine in the toner delivery system and in the developer assembly. And it can take another large batch of prints for the replacement toner to show the damage it can do.

The fact that they expect to put the cartridge in and expect IT is entirely doing the printing shows their inexperience, and likely shows they typically work with little HP printers, etc, since most of them DO work that way. The toner goes DIRECTLY from the cartridge to the drum to the paper, so if you change the toner, you are changing everything out, because there is no delivery system to speak of. And the toner for those type of systems (electrostatic development) is basically universally incompatible with magnetic developer systems, which is what 100% of production class machines use. Not all production machines use the trickle charge method of Xerox, for example Konica's toner for their larger machines (except for some more recent models I gather) is pure toner, but they do have a magnetic developer full of... developer material. Without a trickle charge of developer mixed in with the toner, you typically need a larger developer assembly sump to hold more developer material to allow it to last a long time. That is why the 700 (and 560 and C75, etc) all have developer assemblies which only hold 420g of material, but your 1060's developer assembly holds so much more.

Anyway, to make a short story VERY long... I have tried for many years and many hundreds of hours of experimentation, but no non-Xerox product works. Most fail almost immediately. Some fail after a few cartridges have gone through the system, making it seem like they work, but no. None truly work. (What I print is always very high coverage, so I was motivated to find an alternative.)

And we haven't even BEGUN to TOUCH on the topic of the toner fusing to the paper properly, which is obviously critical. Because even if you find a toner that works in terms of image creation, it still has to fuse to the paper properly, and Xerox machines (particularly the 700 and later) use a lower-temperature fusing system. The Konica toners wouldn't fuse properly even on HIGHER temperature fusing systems before the 700, from the 700 on (like the 550, C75, etc) it is even far worse of a situation. Unless you want to run everything, even lightweight paper, at half speed. Card stock already IS slower speed, and once you've maxed out the paper weight, you can't slow it down any further. So you are SOL there.

As Konica introduces "lower melt" temperature toners, Xerox is as well. They've never matched.

That's why the fuser in your Konica is a BEAST and the fuser in the 700 is a little 5lb lift-out drop-in silly willy wittle thing... (Don't get me wrong, it by and large works excellently, but that is because it is designed for its own toner... And I do LOVE the ability to, in the span of 5 seconds, lift out an old fuser drop in a new fuser, and be back to printing... haha)

Sorry for the long message. This is an area I've spent a lot of time on.

[alextech]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

Konica toner/developer doesn't work long term. Or even every well short term. If you put Konica developer in and then continued using Xerox toners, that is the only reason you got lucky. The trickle charge of the developer mixed in with the Xerox toner offset the Konica developer enough that you scraped by until it was back to mostly being Xerox developer in the assembly again.

Konica toner doesn't have developer in it, so if you were to switch to it, without trying to compensate for that, it would be a quick and hard fail.

But even by adding developer to the toner, even in the exact correct ratios, it doesn't last more than a few cartridges worth of toner, then it typically destroys the drums which are worth FAR more than the toner...

I've done EXTENSIVE experimentation with Konica toner. Using Konica developer mixed in, using actual Xerox developer mixed in, nothing works very long.

The properties of the Konica toner and developer just aren't quite a match for what the Xerox components are expecting.

(It did work better than all other name brand available options, though. But not for but a few cartridges before requiring a complete system cleanout and ruining some drums.)

Don't even try with the generic "compatible" toners. They are all, absolute garbage. Perhaps they work in the machines that it was designed for, but not Xerox. They just "claim" they work in Xerox. Some of them are so clueless that they think simply because you filled a cartridge and them put it in the machine and printed that it must work. I think you're experienced enough with these big production machines (X700, 1060...) that you know it can take hundreds to thousands of prints before the toner from a new cartridge is FULLY in use. Until that point it will be gradually supplanting the genuine toner that was already in the machine in the toner delivery system and in the developer assembly. And it can take another large batch of prints for the replacement toner to show the damage it can do.

The fact that they expect to put the cartridge in and expect IT is entirely doing the printing shows their inexperience, and likely shows they typically work with little HP printers, etc, since most of them DO work that way. The toner goes DIRECTLY from the cartridge to the drum to the paper, so if you change the toner, you are changing everything out, because there is no delivery system to speak of. And the toner for those type of systems (electrostatic development) is basically universally incompatible with magnetic developer systems, which is what 100% of production class machines use. Not all production machines use the trickle charge method of Xerox, for example Konica's toner for their larger machines (except for some more recent models I gather) is pure toner, but they do have a magnetic developer full of... developer material. Without a trickle charge of developer mixed in with the toner, you typically need a larger developer assembly sump to hold more developer material to allow it to last a long time. That is why the 700 (and 560 and C75, etc) all have developer assemblies which only hold 420g of material, but your 1060's developer assembly holds so much more.

Anyway, to make a short story VERY long... I have tried for many years and many hundreds of hours of experimentation, but no non-Xerox product works. Most fail almost immediately. Some fail after a few cartridges have gone through the system, making it seem like they work, but no. None truly work. (What I print is always very high coverage, so I was motivated to find an alternative.)

And we haven't even BEGUN to TOUCH on the topic of the toner fusing to the paper properly, which is obviously critical. Because even if you find a toner that works in terms of image creation, it still has to fuse to the paper properly, and Xerox machines (particularly the 700 and later) use a lower-temperature fusing system. The Konica toners wouldn't fuse properly even on HIGHER temperature fusing systems before the 700, from the 700 on (like the 550, C75, etc) it is even far worse of a situation. Unless you want to run everything, even lightweight paper, at half speed. Card stock already IS slower speed, and once you've maxed out the paper weight, you can't slow it down any further. So you are SOL there.

As Konica introduces "lower melt" temperature toners, Xerox is as well. They've never matched.

That's why the fuser in your Konica is a BEAST and the fuser in the 700 is a little 5lb lift-out drop-in silly willy wittle thing... (Don't get me wrong, it by and large works excellently, but that is because it is designed for its own toner... And I do LOVE the ability to, in the span of 5 seconds, lift out an old fuser drop in a new fuser, and be back to printing... haha)

Sorry for the long message. This is an area I've spent a lot of time on.

[Samxerox]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

Hi Fokes and thank you for your reply
More information than I was expecting but it dos clear up a few things.
As for 550 toner etc I was aware of that.
In fact I found a thread on here from 2021 about toner across toner models.

Xerox versant toner vs xerox c75 toner

As for my experience the time I used the yellow konica dev my dev unit was about done and It was a last ditch attempt to get it to work to get me over the weekend but I used that setup for quiet a while. The dev actually came out of a used unit and was only 2 weeks old. Also to put it context the Konica is on contract but I do most of the service with advice from my supplier.

Also I had got 3kg of black toner from china and it worked but I was not impressed with it and have not purchased again so the caffine responce might explain that. I have also used xerox 252 consumables like drums with no issue and I have run 252 toner as well. But since I usually run one eg 252 followed by a 700 toner and since they are gen 2 and 3 toners this my be why its working because of the mix.

A gent I know has a 252 and he runs 700 toner all the time on it and this makes sense that it would work since the drums, fuser and dev units are cross compatible on these machines.

I usually use this machine for low coverage work and as a back up to the konica.

I much prefer the build quality of the xerox but at the time we got a very attractive deal on the Konica so we got it.

My last note on toner is I plan to use versant 80 toner on the machine since In that thread it suggests that it should work well. Is it you Caffeine I see in that thread.

Lastly and this is only a thought exercise. If I was willing to go to the expense could I convert my 700 to run the 800 white, silver, gold, Clear toner I do believe its possible but you would run into artwork or rip issues but since I come for a litho back ground I understand for example If I had gold in the cyan unit I could set my artwork so that cyan was a solid and Id get a Gold print.

Thoughts

Regards
Sam

[Caffeine]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

Hi Fokes and thank you for your reply
More information than I was expecting but it dos clear up a few things.
As for 550 toner etc I was aware of that.
In fact I found a thread on here from 2021 about toner across toner models.

Xerox versant toner vs xerox c75 toner

As for my experience the time I used the yellow konica dev my dev unit was about done and It was a last ditch attempt to get it to work to get me over the weekend but I used that setup for quiet a while. The dev actually came out of a used unit and was only 2 weeks old. Also to put it context the Konica is on contract but I do most of the service with advice from my supplier.

Also I had got 3kg of black toner from china and it worked but I was not impressed with it and have not purchased again so the caffine responce might explain that. I have also used xerox 252 consumables like drums with no issue and I have run 252 toner as well. But since I usually run one eg 252 followed by a 700 toner and since they are gen 2 and 3 toners this my be why its working because of the mix.

A gent I know has a 252 and he runs 700 toner all the time on it and this makes sense that it would work since the drums, fuser and dev units are cross compatible on these machines.

I usually use this machine for low coverage work and as a back up to the konica.

I much prefer the build quality of the xerox but at the time we got a very attractive deal on the Konica so we got it.

My last note on toner is I plan to use versant 80 toner on the machine since In that thread it suggests that it should work well. Is it you Caffeine I see in that thread.

Lastly and this is only a thought exercise. If I was willing to go to the expense could I convert my 700 to run the 800 white, silver, gold, Clear toner I do believe its possible but you would run into artwork or rip issues but since I come for a litho back ground I understand for example If I had gold in the cyan unit I could set my artwork so that cyan was a solid and Id get a Gold print.

Thoughts

Regards
Sam

Yep, that list of the various Xerox toner types is mine. It put it together quite a long time ago, and I've bumped into it in several threads on several forums since then... haha

I would strongly suspect that the special colors (gold, silver, especially clear) would require the machine to have software support for those colors to function. While mechanically they may work, because they are designed to work in the same machines with the same components, the density sensor would almost certainly have a heart attack and throw an error as it scanned the color patches on the belt. Even if it didn't trigger an error, it wouldn't understand what it was seeing and would probably cause the machine to either overfeed or underfeed the toner into the developer assembly. Also, it could damage the drum by trying to compensate for the unusual density scans.

[Samxerox]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

AAaaaaaaaa boo

I hadn't thought of that. IN fact It didn't even enter my head because I didn't know about it lol.

So the old expression is still true.

A little knowledge is dangerous lol.

[nikolai.aleksie]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

Konica toner/developer doesn't work long term. Or even every well short term. If you put Konica developer in and then continued using Xerox toners, that is the only reason you got lucky. The trickle charge of the developer mixed in with the Xerox toner offset the Konica developer enough that you scraped by until it was back to mostly being Xerox developer in the assembly again.

Konica toner doesn't have developer in it, so if you were to switch to it, without trying to compensate for that, it would be a quick and hard fail.

But even by adding developer to the toner, even in the exact correct ratios, it doesn't last more than a few cartridges worth of toner, then it typically destroys the drums which are worth FAR more than the toner...

I've done EXTENSIVE experimentation with Konica toner. Using Konica developer mixed in, using actual Xerox developer mixed in, nothing works very long.

The properties of the Konica toner and developer just aren't quite a match for what the Xerox components are expecting.

(It did work better than all other name brand available options, though. But not for but a few cartridges before requiring a complete system cleanout and ruining some drums.)

Don't even try with the generic "compatible" toners. They are all, absolute garbage. Perhaps they work in the machines that it was designed for, but not Xerox. They just "claim" they work in Xerox. Some of them are so clueless that they think simply because you filled a cartridge and them put it in the machine and printed that it must work. I think you're experienced enough with these big production machines (X700, 1060...) that you know it can take hundreds to thousands of prints before the toner from a new cartridge is FULLY in use. Until that point it will be gradually supplanting the genuine toner that was already in the machine in the toner delivery system and in the developer assembly. And it can take another large batch of prints for the replacement toner to show the damage it can do.

The fact that they expect to put the cartridge in and expect IT is entirely doing the printing shows their inexperience, and likely shows they typically work with little HP printers, etc, since most of them DO work that way. The toner goes DIRECTLY from the cartridge to the drum to the paper, so if you change the toner, you are changing everything out, because there is no delivery system to speak of. And the toner for those type of systems (electrostatic development) is basically universally incompatible with magnetic developer systems, which is what 100% of production class machines use. Not all production machines use the trickle charge method of Xerox, for example Konica's toner for their larger machines (except for some more recent models I gather) is pure toner, but they do have a magnetic developer full of... developer material. Without a trickle charge of developer mixed in with the toner, you typically need a larger developer assembly sump to hold more developer material to allow it to last a long time. That is why the 700 (and 560 and C75, etc) all have developer assemblies which only hold 420g of material, but your 1060's developer assembly holds so much more.

Anyway, to make a short story VERY long... I have tried for many years and many hundreds of hours of experimentation, but no non-Xerox product works. Most fail almost immediately. Some fail after a few cartridges have gone through the system, making it seem like they work, but no. None truly work. (What I print is always very high coverage, so I was motivated to find an alternative.)

And we haven't even BEGUN to TOUCH on the topic of the toner fusing to the paper properly, which is obviously critical. Because even if you find a toner that works in terms of image creation, it still has to fuse to the paper properly, and Xerox machines (particularly the 700 and later) use a lower-temperature fusing system. The Konica toners wouldn't fuse properly even on HIGHER temperature fusing systems before the 700, from the 700 on (like the 550, C75, etc) it is even far worse of a situation. Unless you want to run everything, even lightweight paper, at half speed. Card stock already IS slower speed, and once you've maxed out the paper weight, you can't slow it down any further. So you are SOL there.

As Konica introduces "lower melt" temperature toners, Xerox is as well. They've never matched.

That's why the fuser in your Konica is a BEAST and the fuser in the 700 is a little 5lb lift-out drop-in silly willy wittle thing... (Don't get me wrong, it by and large works excellently, but that is because it is designed for its own toner... And I do LOVE the ability to, in the span of 5 seconds, lift out an old fuser drop in a new fuser, and be back to printing... haha)

Sorry for the long message. This is an area I've spent a lot of time on.

What about Xerox D95A/D110/D125 toner, can it be used in 700/560/C60 as a replacement for black toner?

[Caffeine]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

What about Xerox D95A/D110/D125 toner, can it be used in 700/560/C60 as a replacement for black toner?

Nope. Functions, but doesn't fuse well. Even on paper weights, especially bad on anything heavier than 24lb (90gsm), even when you trick it by claiming it is a heavier cardstock than it really is.

Like the Konica in the previous example, the D-series has a BIG fuser.

Black is particularly more difficult than the colors in the 700/570/C70, etc because the machines LOWER their temperature for K-only mode, because since it is K-only, a single layer of toner, it thinks it doesn't need as much heat.

In color printing, it is hotter, and in SOME cases it will work, but anywhere that you have a little bit dark color which is a mix of K and CMY, it will flake off.

There is no NVM setting in these machines to "boost" their fusing temperature. (Anticipating your next question... haha)

[tsbservice]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

Konica toner/developer doesn't work long term. Or even every well short term. If you put Konica developer in and then continued using Xerox toners, that is the only reason you got lucky. The trickle charge of the developer mixed in with the Xerox toner offset the Konica developer enough that you scraped by until it was back to mostly being Xerox developer in the assembly again.

Konica toner doesn't have developer in it, so if you were to switch to it, without trying to compensate for that, it would be a quick and hard fail.

But even by adding developer to the toner, even in the exact correct ratios, it doesn't last more than a few cartridges worth of toner, then it typically destroys the drums which are worth FAR more than the toner...

I've done EXTENSIVE experimentation with Konica toner. Using Konica developer mixed in, using actual Xerox developer mixed in, nothing works very long.

The properties of the Konica toner and developer just aren't quite a match for what the Xerox components are expecting.

(It did work better than all other name brand available options, though. But not for but a few cartridges before requiring a complete system cleanout and ruining some drums.)

Don't even try with the generic "compatible" toners. They are all, absolute garbage. Perhaps they work in the machines that it was designed for, but not Xerox. They just "claim" they work in Xerox. Some of them are so clueless that they think simply because you filled a cartridge and them put it in the machine and printed that it must work. I think you're experienced enough with these big production machines (X700, 1060...) that you know it can take hundreds to thousands of prints before the toner from a new cartridge is FULLY in use. Until that point it will be gradually supplanting the genuine toner that was already in the machine in the toner delivery system and in the developer assembly. And it can take another large batch of prints for the replacement toner to show the damage it can do.

The fact that they expect to put the cartridge in and expect IT is entirely doing the printing shows their inexperience, and likely shows they typically work with little HP printers, etc, since most of them DO work that way. The toner goes DIRECTLY from the cartridge to the drum to the paper, so if you change the toner, you are changing everything out, because there is no delivery system to speak of. And the toner for those type of systems (electrostatic development) is basically universally incompatible with magnetic developer systems, which is what 100% of production class machines use. Not all production machines use the trickle charge method of Xerox, for example Konica's toner for their larger machines (except for some more recent models I gather) is pure toner, but they do have a magnetic developer full of... developer material. Without a trickle charge of developer mixed in with the toner, you typically need a larger developer assembly sump to hold more developer material to allow it to last a long time. That is why the 700 (and 560 and C75, etc) all have developer assemblies which only hold 420g of material, but your 1060's developer assembly holds so much more.

Anyway, to make a short story VERY long... I have tried for many years and many hundreds of hours of experimentation, but no non-Xerox product works. Most fail almost immediately. Some fail after a few cartridges have gone through the system, making it seem like they work, but no. None truly work. (What I print is always very high coverage, so I was motivated to find an alternative.)

And we haven't even BEGUN to TOUCH on the topic of the toner fusing to the paper properly, which is obviously critical. Because even if you find a toner that works in terms of image creation, it still has to fuse to the paper properly, and Xerox machines (particularly the 700 and later) use a lower-temperature fusing system. The Konica toners wouldn't fuse properly even on HIGHER temperature fusing systems before the 700, from the 700 on (like the 550, C75, etc) it is even far worse of a situation. Unless you want to run everything, even lightweight paper, at half speed. Card stock already IS slower speed, and once you've maxed out the paper weight, you can't slow it down any further. So you are SOL there.

As Konica introduces "lower melt" temperature toners, Xerox is as well. They've never matched.

That's why the fuser in your Konica is a BEAST and the fuser in the 700 is a little 5lb lift-out drop-in silly willy wittle thing... (Don't get me wrong, it by and large works excellently, but that is because it is designed for its own toner... And I do LOVE the ability to, in the span of 5 seconds, lift out an old fuser drop in a new fuser, and be back to printing... haha)

Sorry for the long message. This is an area I've spent a lot of time on.

I don't service Xerox but this is by far the best post I see in non our area. Means a lot of work and time have been spent. Nothing but kudos and you know why 🤣

[Samxerox]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

Hi Caffeine

You seam to have a vast knowledge on xerox machines.
As you have gathered I have a 700.
In past threads you mentioned using xerox 800 toner.
So how much toner is in a 800 cartridge because a 700 has about 700 grms in a toner cartridge
Also how did you deal with the toner chip issue did you just buy chips or is there a nvm code to reset the chips.
Lastly I rebuild my drums and have tried different things to reset the drum counter with no success.

Is there a way around this or is it just a case of having to get a drum chip or deal with the message never leaving.

Since these machines have been around for a long time I thought that there must be a chip re-setter made for them or a nvm resetting the toner chips.

I know with my toner chips if they are not used for a long period they start reading anywhere for 5% to 95% toner available.

[Caffeine]

Re: Toner Compatable with xerox 700

Hi Caffeine

You seam to have a vast knowledge on xerox machines.
As you have gathered I have a 700.
In past threads you mentioned using xerox 800 toner.
So how much toner is in a 800 cartridge because a 700 has about 700 grms in a toner cartridge
Also how did you deal with the toner chip issue did you just buy chips or is there a nvm code to reset the chips.
Lastly I rebuild my drums and have tried different things to reset the drum counter with no success.

Is there a way around this or is it just a case of having to get a drum chip or deal with the message never leaving.

Since these machines have been around for a long time I thought that there must be a chip re-setter made for them or a nvm resetting the toner chips.

I know with my toner chips if they are not used for a long period they start reading anywhere for 5% to 95% toner available.

There is no reset solution for these particular chips. You have to buy new ones in order to reset your cartridge or drum to 100%.