Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums....

[Engelgrafik]

Is there a cheat sheet somewhere of what inks work with which drums?? Clearly Riso make it difficult to interchange inks to increase supplies sales, but I know for a fact that some inks of one series will work in the drums of another. However, I'm finding it incredibly frustrating trying to figure it out!

I've got a bunch of FR/GR and GR drums which I have tested on my FR3950 and they work fine with the cartridges that are in them. However, when I buy ink on eBay that says it works with GR or FR drums, they don't fit! Granted, the listings will sometimes say "RP/RN" ink or something like that, but also in the listing it will say "works with FR3950, GR3750, etc. etc." Yet when I get the ink, it doesn't fit! The RP/RN ink is clearly taller than will fit in a GR or FR drum.

Additionally, I've bought some 3rd party inks that specifically say that their inks work with GR drums but when I put them in the GR drum (and it fits perfectly), my FR3950 tells me "wrong ink cartridge" or "install ink cartridge" like it doesn't even recognize it. Is there a trick?

Lastly -- and this takes the cake -- I have a GR ink cartridge that doesn't fit in any GR drum! It is an official Riso GR drum and everything... and yet won't fit in the drum. And it's not an HD drum either.

I'm so confused. I've managed to get two GR drums and three FR/GR drums to work in my FR3950 but now I'm having trouble tracking down ink that works. I don't have all the ink for these drums, so I've been testing them with other inks. For instance I tried an FR/GR brown drum with some blue ink and it worked great. That ink cartridge says "RC/RA". However, today I tried it and the Riso keeps saying "insert ink cartridge" like it doesn't recognize it.

Needless to say, it's all driving me a bit crazy.

[Iowatech]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

First things first, for your FR, avoid RN/RP ink at all costs, it won't work ever for any reason.
If the actual FR/GR ink has been sitting around for a while, the bottle will expand, making it impossible to insert the bottle into the drum.
Also, if the ink old enough, the pigment will separate from the carrier fluid, which will cause a big mess.
As for the third party inks, it is just probably that the ID tabs on those bottles don't match up to the ink identification switches in the drum. And that's just wrong. Cheap bastards.
Finally, there are almost no new parts available for the FR as it is really old and obsolete. So while the machine is still working you may want to start budgeting for a replacement, so you don't get stuck with a bunch of jobs you can't do because your machine is a shelf.

[Engelgrafik]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

First things first, for your FR, avoid RN/RP ink at all costs, it won't work ever for any reason.
If the actual FR/GR ink has been sitting around for a while, the bottle will expand, making it impossible to insert the bottle into the drum.
Also, if the ink old enough, the pigment will separate from the carrier fluid, which will cause a big mess.
As for the third party inks, it is just probably that the ID tabs on those bottles don't match up to the ink identification switches in the drum. And that's just wrong. Cheap bastards.
Finally, there are almost no new parts available for the FR as it is really old and obsolete. So while the machine is still working you may want to start budgeting for a replacement, so you don't get stuck with a bunch of jobs you can't do because your machine is a shelf.

:: sticks fingers in ears :: No No No!! You're saying things I don't want to hear!!!

You're right, this is all old stuff. However, I actually managed to print with an RN/RP cartridge... I was thinking, "hey, if the tube will go in, but just be a tiny bit too long for the green latch to lock it in, will it still work?" Well, I risked it and it worked.. Was very surprised. I thought I'd have a mess or something. I'm a photographer and have gaffer's tape on hand so I'm going to use that to "lock" it in.

And yes, I've considered "going Z" but just don't have that kind of money. My usage on this thing is for mainly art purposes. Printed 65 comic books for an artist who sold 40 of them at the Small Press Expo in Bethesda, MD a couple weeks ago. My first success! Not bad for a 14 year old machine with 19 year old drums! I get a Riso guy to come out and do some maintenance sometimes. Works out pretty well. He even gave me a couple replacement wheels for drums.

I really wish there was some kind of cheat sheet with all of the inks and drums and which ones fit in which drums. :: sigh ::

I'm still totally mystified as to why the "GR" cartridge doesn't fit in a GR drum. This thing is the same length as the RP/RN cartridges. Makes me think it's a fake or something.

[Iowatech]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

Like I said, if the GR ink bottle has been sitting around unused for a while, the bottle has expanded to the point that the diameter of the bottle is now larger than the diameter of the cavity in the drum the ink bottle needs to go into. It is probably just too old. Be glad it wasn't in the drum when it expanded. I've seen that several times, and it sucks.
Good luck getting the RN/RP ink to work in your machine, but the cheat sheet says that that will not last. The inks are chemically different enough that Riso changed the design of the bottles to try to prevent people using the wrong ink in the wrong machine.
Congratulations on your success, though!

[Engelgrafik]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

Like I said, if the GR ink bottle has been sitting around unused for a while, the bottle has expanded to the point that the diameter of the bottle is now larger than the diameter of the cavity in the drum the ink bottle needs to go into. It is probably just too old. Be glad it wasn't in the drum when it expanded. I've seen that several times, and it sucks.

Nah, like I said, the tube fits into the hole just fine, but it's too tall.. it sticks out a good centimeter or so like the RP/RN inks, so that it can't lock in with the green latch.

I didn't know the ink was chemically different. Hmm... I thought only the HD ink was a different chemistry.

[Iowatech]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

I guess my info can't help you, so I'll just be on my merry way.
Hopefully someone else can help you here.
Still, good luck!

[ddude]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

Color ink labelled GR should work in GR or FR drums, period. Black ink will be different between models, but color is color and GR ink should fit GR and FR-they were made to be interchangeable. Iowatech is right about the tubes swelling, but length between the GR should all be equal. Each bottle has a plastic tab or two on it's face that will contact switches inside the drum, telling the machine that you inserted the correct type of ink. You may get some ink tubes (or maybe your drums) that have been modified to accept different ink, either by adding or subtracting these plastic tabs, or by bypassing the switches inside of the drum This may be what you are faced with.

[Engelgrafik]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

I guess my info can't help you, so I'll just be on my merry way.
Hopefully someone else can help you here.
Still, good luck!

Actually your info is very helpful. I'm just telling you the tubes aren't swollen... they are just long. I do have some slightly swollen tubes but they still work and fit correctly otherwise.

[Engelgrafik]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

Color ink labelled GR should work in GR or FR drums, period. Black ink will be different between models, but color is color and GR ink should fit GR and FR-they were made to be interchangeable. Iowatech is right about the tubes swelling, but length between the GR should all be equal. Each bottle has a plastic tab or two on it's face that will contact switches inside the drum, telling the machine that you inserted the correct type of ink. You may get some ink tubes (or maybe your drums) that have been modified to accept different ink, either by adding or subtracting these plastic tabs, or by bypassing the switches inside of the drum This may be what you are faced with.

I wish I knew a place where I could get GR / FR ink reliably because clearly eBay is not the place. The people selling the ink on eBay are simply copying each other's listings and it's like a giant game of "Telephone" so people are saying stuff like "this RP/RN ink is for Risograph machines like the RC, RN, RP, GR, FR series" yadda yadda yadda. And this is from major copy/ink/printer supply companies as well.

--Jeff

[ddude]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

Ebay has good product at good prices, but you do have to be careful, and sometimes it is taking a chance. Have you tried contacting the sellers with your issues and asking for a refund? Be sure to give the appropriate feedback to these sellers to warn other buyers.


What color inks are you in need of?

[ddude]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

Riso color ink comp.pdf

[Engelgrafik]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

Ebay has good product at good prices, but you do have to be careful, and sometimes it is taking a chance. Have you tried contacting the sellers with your issues and asking for a refund? Be sure to give the appropriate feedback to these sellers to warn other buyers.


What color inks are you in need of?

It would be great to get the correct size brown, yellow, blue, teal, bright red, flat gold and fluorescent pink. The green cartridges I bought work... and so do the brown ones for the most part, but they're not actually the right size and like Iowatech said earlier, it's quite possible they're not good for my drums.

I did notice something interesting... the green 3rd party eBay cartridges I have fit great, but my FR/GR green drum didn't recognize it. I looked at the original ink cartridge, an old one that I got from the original owner of the FR3950 machine, and it had a metal tab taped to the side of the opening along the edge. When I removed that tab and taped it onto the same location on the new green cartridge, the drum recognized the cartridge. I have a bunch of FR/GR drums and they don't behave the same way. The tab lines up with an opening that shows three prongs near the nozzle inside the drum. Must be some kind of contact... but, again, my other FR/GR drums have this opening, but no tab is needed to recognize the appropriate ink.

This stuff is a real mystery at times!

[ddude]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

It sounds like your green FR/GR drum is actually a black drum that has been tricked into thinking it's a color drum. You'll notice on my attachment that GR color ink will work in FR/GR machines...

[Engelgrafik]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

It sounds like your green FR/GR drum is actually a black drum that has been tricked into thinking it's a color drum. You'll notice on my attachment that GR color ink will work in FR/GR machines...

Didn't think about that but I suppose it's possible. The sticker says it's an FR/GR drum and it has the "green" designation on it as well. I always thought that the black drums will only be designated "FR" and not "FR/GR" because I have the FR black drum that came with the machine as well.

[ddude]

Re: Ink woes... which ones work, which ones don't? FR machine with GR and FR drums...

Yep, you're right-if it is labelled "FR/GR" then it was made for color only- I don't know what that tab you transferred between the ink tubes would be for then?