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TheBlueOrleans
07-07-2016, 04:31 PM
:mad::mad:

Okay. (calm...)

:D

I've got a 364e with FK-511 intermittently rotating fax images 90 degrees, as in a full page in portrait suddenly becomes rotated to landscape and shrunk 50% but printed on portrait orientation.
Paper size is letter across the board, portrait orientation in all trays.
The reduction is causing the images to be illegible and these faxes are going to physicians, patients, insurance companies, and if they're illegible that will cause problems.
So I've upgraded the firmware to G00-K6, opened a ticket with SSD, they've had me clean the photosensors in the ADF, run a fax initialization and fax file format. I have also replaced the fax board entirely, and now the images are rotating 180 degrees with the header on the long edge rather than the lead edge. This is a problem that isn't going to go away without a fight.

I'm going to call SSD and update the ticket shortly, but I thought I would bring the issue up here in case anyone else had seen this and might have a fix.



Annnnnnd... GO!

MVPunisher
07-07-2016, 05:08 PM
I had this issue about 3 times. It obviously can be the customer sending faxes from the A4 position rather than letter, confirm the guides are tight. My case it was not. My case it was that sensor when you lift up the feeder and look up in that hole to the left (PS6 Document read sensor). What i think happens is the dust on the sensor causes it to unflag a little slower and think the document is a tad bit longer than 11 inches. Really doesn't make sense as it shouldn't do this. Being said I cleaned it on two of them to resolve issue. Replaced it on the 3rd as the cleaning didn't do it. Replacing it did though.

TheBlueOrleans
07-07-2016, 06:05 PM
Thank you for that. I will mention the potential replacement of photosensors in ADF to SSD when I call.

TheBlueOrleans
07-07-2016, 07:44 PM
SSD recommends replacing registration sensor (PS3) as well as DF control board.
So we'll go from there.

TheBlueOrleans
07-07-2016, 11:12 PM
Replaced PS3, PS10 and DFCB, and thoroughly cleaned PS4 and the black plate it looks at.
One of those things fixed it, not really sure which. I wasn't about to take the time to test each individual part to see if it worked or not and then keep going if one didn't.
Completed call, got the hero's thanks, closed the SSD ticket and I feel better about life in general now.

blackcat4866
07-08-2016, 01:31 AM
Sorry I saw this late. This is a very common problem on the Sharp AR-M450N. The DF length sensor was gravity operated, and if the flag was not balanced just right, a LTR (LEF) original was misread as a LGR (SEF) original. The machine automatically reduces the image 64% and rotates the image 90 degrees to fit upon LTR, giving you the results you describe, mainly on fax Tx. On the Sharp the plastic flag might be deformed, or it might not have enough ballast. It comes equipped with a 4mm x 8mm plastic thread screw to counterweight the flag. Usually I would insert two 4mm x 8mm plastic thread screws, end to end, doubling the counterweight. There are other ways to achieve the same result but that's the simplest. Sometimes the flag shaft gets damaged or just knocked out of it's holder. The test is to use your finger to carefully press the length sensor flag. Carefully lift off your finger and watch how it returns. It might return slow, or stick down.

Since the Konica uses a reflective original length sensor, I would have cleaned, replaced or calibrated the length sensor. Also make sure you don't have a fluorescent light directly overhead faking out the reflective sensor. =^..^=

B0265
07-08-2016, 09:40 AM
Check the levers in the DF tray.

TheBlueOrleans
07-11-2016, 10:45 PM
Sorry I saw this late. This is a very common problem on the Sharp AR-M450N. The DF length sensor was gravity operated, and if the flag was not balanced just right, a LTR (LEF) original was misread as a LGR (SEF) original. The machine automatically reduces the image 64% and rotates the image 90 degrees to fit upon LTR, giving you the results you describe, mainly on fax Tx. On the Sharp the plastic flag might be deformed, or it might not have enough ballast. It comes equipped with a 4mm x 8mm plastic thread screw to counterweight the flag. Usually I would insert two 4mm x 8mm plastic thread screws, end to end, doubling the counterweight. There are other ways to achieve the same result but that's the simplest. Sometimes the flag shaft gets damaged or just knocked out of it's holder. The test is to use your finger to carefully press the length sensor flag. Carefully lift off your finger and watch how it returns. It might return slow, or stick down.

Since the Konica uses a reflective original length sensor, I would have cleaned, replaced or calibrated the length sensor. Also make sure you don't have a fluorescent light directly overhead faking out the reflective sensor. =^..^=

Never touched a Sharp (I'm told it's dangerous... [rimshot]), so I can't speak for other brands' issues.

There is no overhead fluorescent light, and the user recently called to state the issue has returned and is now appearing in another machine that they receive faxes from.
I am starting to think it may not be just a hardware issue.
Ticket open with onsite IT "voice team", so let's see what they say.
I really don't know what else to do to the machine at this point. All the sensors tested accurately in State Confirmation > Sensor Check, even just barely manipulating the flags caused the sensor to trip. Worst case scenario, I can call SSD back and throw parts at it until they run out of ideas, then escalate the problem to the senior tech.

blackcat4866
07-12-2016, 12:06 AM
Have you actually caused it to happen yourself?

On that same Sharp, the same result might happen if an enduser stacked a LTR size pile of originals on the end of the original tray (atop the length sensor), while removing pages from the top of the stack to feed through the DF. Another enduser taped a convenient little note about paper orientation right on top of the paper length sensor. =^..^=

tekhed
07-12-2016, 01:11 PM
I had this on a non e 4 series colour once. When faxing there doesn't seem to be any edge erase and if the adf read positions are out it seems it tries to send an image the next biggest size. I didn't have the special ADF sheet with the box to adjust so I just manually adjusted. I think I marked the corners for a reference and checked on the Tx report page to see how much image I was getting. You don't have to actually send a fax while adjusting, just start it so it scans the page then cancel it. Then test properly after.

TheBlueOrleans
07-12-2016, 04:51 PM
I have faxed from the machine in question the PCL and PS font lists, just to have a multiple-page fax to test. Sending those 9 pages, four of them were rotated with the header on the wrong edge.
I can try replacing the length sensor, just in case the machine might think it's getting a legal page in the middle of all that letter (in portrait, no less). Sensor check showed it functioning normally.
They state that multiple machines are having the exact same issue, sending and receiving multiple page faxes, some of the pages are rotated.
If it happens to one more machine in that area I'm no longer going to consider it a coincidence.

Makinbacon
07-12-2016, 11:49 PM
Having the same issue here with the same model a BW Bizhub 364e. We have replaced so far, the MFP board, fax board, SSD board, updated firmware, and memory to no avail. We have also calibrated the tray width sliders and checked the length sensors. We have called KMBS and SSD and they have no idea. Nice to know we are not alone. This seemed to have started after a power event(surge or loss of). We can replicated the issue but only when faxing. This issue does not happen when copying or scanning. We are starting to think there is something corrupt in the software or firmware in the system and is getting written to the new components we have installed. Nothing seems to have fixed it yet. We are dealing with our KMBS Rep and he has not seen this before. Hang in there if we find a solution we will let you know. The only fix we have found is to tell the machine exactly what the originals are instead of using the auto setting. So if we are faxing letter in the portrait format we set the the originals accordingly and tell the mfp the size and orientation of the originals. It worked every time we tried. We only have this issue on one of the many we have in the field. Seemed to remember the Bizhub 250s after a few years would start flagging jams in the adf upon start up, they all started doing it at random. Hopefully this is not going to become a plague for the series. Good luck.

KingofMorton
07-20-2016, 10:56 PM
In reference to the post above, I have also installed a new ADF and dual scan board. With the new ADF and board the machine now does not have a pause in the middle of each fax page scan but it continues to send letter sized paper out as 8.98x11.57" even if the 364e is told that letter paper is in the ADF.

Makinbacon
07-25-2016, 07:21 PM
We have pulled this mfp from the field. Depending on what happens with it we will update if a solution is found.

techie0419
07-26-2018, 08:58 PM
WHAZZAP BRO??!!!!

Digging up an old thread, but these issues never fully die. Apparently. Same issue on a C558. Outbound faxes rotate 90 degrees. KM had said similar things when I opened a ticket a few months ago. Update firmware. Try a new fax board.

Two fax lines, though. Trying to isolate which board was having the issue, I had initially set Line 1 to Tx/Rx, and Line 2 to Rx Only. Issue recurred. Okay, swapped the boards around, same setup. Original Line 2 became Line 1, Tx/Rx, and the other board was Rx Only. Seemed to work fine for a couple of months until I said something about it to one of the onsite IT guys. Jinxed it, perhaps. Got a call back, it happened again.

I'm about to call SSD back to see if they have any other recommendations, but I figured I'd check here first. Did y'all ever figure out a solution?

blackcat4866
07-26-2018, 09:22 PM
Are the received faxes also reduced to 64%? =^..^=

copyrooks
07-26-2018, 09:57 PM
WHAZZAP BRO??!!!!

Digging up an old thread, but these issues never fully die. Apparently. Same issue on a C558. Outbound faxes rotate 90 degrees. KM had said similar things when I opened a ticket a few months ago. Update firmware. Try a new fax board.

Two fax lines, though. Trying to isolate which board was having the issue, I had initially set Line 1 to Tx/Rx, and Line 2 to Rx Only. Issue recurred. Okay, swapped the boards around, same setup. Original Line 2 became Line 1, Tx/Rx, and the other board was Rx Only. Seemed to work fine for a couple of months until I said something about it to one of the onsite IT guys. Jinxed it, perhaps. Got a call back, it happened again.

I'm about to call SSD back to see if they have any other recommendations, but I figured I'd check here first. Did y'all ever figure out a solution?

I had a similar issue with a C558 but with scans being rotated. I didn't end up making a ticket because I didn't believe the customer at first. After testing sure enough it would happen. I performed the adjustments for the ADF like you're setting up for first time , and I updated the fw to the latest available and after multiple tests the problem seemed to be resolved. A month goes by and the customer was complaining about the same issue. After multiple tests I never saw the issue happen but the customer kept claiming it would happen. I replaced ps10 (A5C1M50100), ps11 (A108M50000), vr1 (A1UDM50100) , after looking at a few copytechnet forum posts and glancing at the theory. They have not called since but my next thing to try is the adf board and checking with KMBS for any suggestions. Good luck

techie0419
07-27-2018, 04:20 PM
Inbound faxes come through at the normal orientation and zoom ratio. This only affects outgoing faxes. And not every time.

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