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  1. #1
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

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    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    Here's the back story. I have an existing customer who is a pastor at a local church. They have 4-color machines via RJ Young. They are in the process of replacing all 4. When they found out they have competition, they quoted a new contract that includes unlimited pages. That's all I know at this point. I have a meeting with them in the morning. My bullshit meter is on high alert. The devil is always in the details but UNLIMITED at a fixed price? I don't see it.


    Anyone see this before?
    Growth is found only in adversity.

  2. #2
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    ... there is no magic. RJ Young has essentially priced a prepaid copy block into their cost under the guise of what the industry calls an "All In" plan.

    Somewhere in the fine print is a sentence that says if the customer exceeds X number of prints, there will be an additional charge.

    RJ Young is still monitoring meter reads.

    One of the benefits RJ Young will state is the customer only receives one fixed invoice for the rental of the device(s).

    The customer is always safest to be invoiced for actuals.

    Your repsonse should be to offer a lower rental cost with a lower Total Cost of Ownership.

    RJ Young has much greater pricing power than you have and can accept negative GP to get a deal.

    Do not get bent out of shape over any black cpc charges as they are relatively inexpensive. It is the colour click charge you have to pay attention to.

  3. #3
    Field Supervisor 500+ Posts mloudy's Avatar
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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    Wouldn't suprise me but a dealer will always get their money in the end. It is often buried deep in the details. We are seeing it more and more.

    Don't ya love it when people allow the other dealer to requote and it is completely obvious they were handed your quote? The other dealer can drop their price by thousands and the customer doesn't stop to think, "How are they able to do that? Were they trying to rip me off on the first quote?".

  4. #4
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    BillyCarpenter's Avatar
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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    That's for the replies, guys. Both of you make good points and I agree. I have the inside track because one of the other pastors is an existing customer who I've gotten to know very well over the years. I will be able to get a copy of the actual contract.

    PS - The approach that I plan on taking is TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) as SSG suggested. Some of these copier companies play fast and loose on the service contract. That's ashamed and unnecessary.
    Growth is found only in adversity.

  5. #5
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    Quote Originally Posted by mloudy View Post
    Wouldn't suprise me but a dealer will always get their money in the end. It is often buried deep in the details. We are seeing it more and more.

    Don't ya love it when people allow the other dealer to requote and it is completely obvious they were handed your quote? The other dealer can drop their price by thousands and the customer doesn't stop to think, "How are they able to do that? Were they trying to rip me off on the first quote?".

    ... that is the name of the game to ask friendly customers for a copy of the competitve quote and for you to expect to requote if your quote is high.

    In many cases, the phrase "you can't beat stupid" is used to refer to prices that seem too low.

    Often the competitive quote excludes key details buried in the service contract that are only revealed after the deal is signed.

  6. #6
    Service Manager 10,000+ Posts
    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    BillyCarpenter's Avatar
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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    One of the many challenges when making a competitive proposal vs. the competition is to write the quote in a way that the customer can do a side by side comparison and they can make sense of it. This can be difficult. In the past I've explained it to them in detail but I can see their attention start to wane. So what I like to do is write my proposal very similar to the other company. That way we're talking apples to apples. We do this stuff every day so it's easy for us to understand. In the process I'm usually able to uncover hidden costs or things they weren't aware of.


    Does that make any sense?
    Growth is found only in adversity.

  7. #7
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyCarpenter View Post
    One of the many challenges when making a competitive proposal vs. the competition is to write the quote in a way that the customer can do a side by side comparison and they can make sense of it. This can be difficult. In the past I've explained it to them in detail but I can see their attention start to wane. So what I like to do is write my proposal very similar to the other company. That way we're talking apples to apples. We do this stuff every day so it's easy for us to understand. In the process I'm usually able to uncover hidden costs or things they weren't aware of.


    Does that make any sense?
    ... a paid subscription to BLI or Datamaster would make the side by side feature task much easier. Some OEMs provide free access. I usually just let the customer review this on their own with the key features I want to stress in highlighter.

    Customers will start to gloss over any more than a few competitve points.

    You should focus more on the Total Cost of Ownership calculation and any integrations you have to MS365.

    I have won more than a few deals at higher cost because the competition did not talk about MS365 apps available on their copiers.

  8. #8
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    ... the greatest strength you have against RJ Young is because of their size, they have less flexibility than you have in what you can offer. If you pitch a straight up copier deal than you will probably loose.

    The have middle Managers that they have to pay for and way higher fixed costs for vehicles and warehousing. While they almost certainly have a lower costs of goods than you have, by the time their sales rep gets his landed cost , it could be comparable to yours.

    RJ Young because of their size has to use automation in their billing and service systems that are near impssoble to change for any deal. RJ Young almost certainly automatically escalates the cpc after the first year by up to 10%. You can fix the cpc for five years if you want.

    Propose non standard things that require the competitive sales reps to get multiple approvals to make it hard for them. Maybe the Church needs a new dishwasher. Build the cost into your quote and blend it into the final number. Or maybe make a donation of some sort like an office chair or flat panel TV built into your cost.

    RJ Young does sell Kyocera as one of their brands.

  9. #9
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    Konica Minolta innovated the OneRate program. The RJ Young program is a spin off of the same.

    https://konicaminolta.ca/wps/wcm/con...S&CVID=mmMFTRb

    Kyocera does offer their similar Unlimited plan.

    These plans are also known as Flat Rate plans or subscription plans. The downside is the sales rep has to place the customer in a bucket or tier of prepaid prints. If the customers prints decline over time, their One Rate price does not. If you invoice for actual meter reads and the customers print volumes go up or down they benefit.

    Churches have to deal with declining attendees as people age with less contributions so they do not want to get stuck in a fixed cost program. There is also the probablility that a new virus like COVID could reappear forcing people to stay at home away from the Church.

  10. #10
    Service Manager 5,000+ Posts
    RJ Young service with unlimited pages

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    Re: RJ Young service with unlimited pages

    One program has recently lately. That's the KonicaMinolta All inclusive unlimited click program.
    I first heard of the program through one of my Linkedin connections and he was touting how awesome the program is for clients. In fact he's authored his success on the One Rate Program. Sounds awesome and any program that sounds awesome means that I need to dig a little deeper and understand the offering.
    Is it an awesome program for Direct Reps to talk about? You bet your ass it is. Unlimited clicks will get anyone's attention these days, especially those clients that are tired of getting billed for overages.
    Thus, there is a lease cost for the copiers and a monthly cost for service and supplies. The service and supply cost is different for each model. You add the two monthly costs together and that's the total monthly cost with unlimited clicks.
    Here's what's good for sales person to chat about:

    • Unlimited clicks. Yup unlimited, make as many as you want (program not available to Print4Pay accounts)
    • Never ever get a bill for overages clicks. Which means you have a predictable expense
    • Never have a bill for toner
    • Never feel that you've been robbed because you did not meet your minimum quarterly or annual meter volumes

    Here's what's not so good for the sales person to chat about:

    • If a client use of supplies rises above the typical use pattern (determined by KMBS) the client would need to pay for improper or excess use
    • Parts replacement could be new or refurbished
    • KM may increase the payment at the end of the first year and every successive 12 month period by a maximum of up to 10%

    I'm a huge fan of programs and this program offers what clients want. Clients are tired of overage clicks and not being able to have a predictable expense. Even if the escalation increase is 10% per year on the hardware and the maintenance/supply costs, there are many prospects that are just tired of the click cost.
    If you look at the client that has multiple copiers and has a lease payment of $1,000 per month, that second year monthly cost may rise to $1,100. That's $1,200 additional dollars out of pocket. The third increase could rise to $1,210 per month, fourth year at $1,331 and the final year could be $1,464. That's a nice little money maker especially when clicks are declining in the office.
    I have to tip my hat to KonicaMinolta. It's a really cool program and is something different for their reps to talk about. Unlimited clicks will gather someone's attention! In addition, it begs the question of "why not do business with us today, because no one else will offer this great program". Well, that's the way I would position it.
    As with any program there are pitfalls. The possible increase of 10% per year, and the over consumption of toner could be a deal breaker. However, to this day, I've never seen an SMB account fired for using to much toner.

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