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Laserbeam
05-28-2019, 02:02 PM
Hello,

I am so desparate!

A bizhub C454e (total Count around 1,5 Million) shows the following problem: The paper shows about halfway a wave-line shape.

I habe already changed the following parts:

1. Paper Exit unit
2. Fixing unit
3. Reversal unit
4. Fixing drive assy

The registration roller drive smooth (all 4 bearings are oiled)

but unfortunatelly the Problem still exists!

any other ideas? :confused:

Phil B.
05-28-2019, 03:48 PM
Hello,
I am so desparate!
A bizhub C454e (total Count around 1,5 Million) shows the following problem: The paper shows about halfway a wave-line shape.
I have already changed the following parts:
1. Paper Exit unit
2. Fixing unit
3. Reversal unit
4. Fixing drive assy
The registration roller drive smooth (all 4 bearings are oiled)
but unfortunatelly the Problem still exists!
any other ideas? :confused:

moisture in paper?
cheap paper?
what are fuser temp settings at?
how long has this problem been visible?

tsbservice
05-28-2019, 04:02 PM
Sample looks A3, what about other formats A4, A4-R? Does paper waves are always at the same space, relatively to paper size?
Not sure but, fuser speed adjustments on this model available?

Laserbeam
05-28-2019, 05:40 PM
@ Phil. B.

the paper can be excludet! I have tested several qualities, the problem still exists.

@tsbservice,

yes, on the picture in the attachment, it`s A3-paper. That`s the best way to see it. However, the problem also exists on A4 or A4R.
I tried to change the setting from -20 to +20 in the fusing fixing speed, but unfortunately without success.:(
The problem occured suddenly and now every copy/print.

tsbservice
05-28-2019, 06:12 PM
Try to crash stop the machine(open the door during preferably A3 copy/print cycle) and look exactly at which section the paper curl/wave occur. I would NOT exclude registration section from being the culprit at this count. Don't panic and take advantage of problem shows up on every page

Laserbeam
05-28-2019, 07:11 PM
that's what I`ve tried with A3.
The location where the problem occurs is between fixing unit and paper exit unit. Between registration roller and etrance fixing unit the paper is not curled!

Toxic
05-28-2019, 07:38 PM
I had similar problem on c203 with 1mil,it was fusing drive problem,worn bushings and scraped that machine,not worth repairing.
But if you replace all that and does not solve problem i have no idea.

Tom
05-28-2019, 07:51 PM
6 year old machine with 1.5 million, is an upgrade a possiblity. You start seeing weird problems with age and mileage.

Coptech
05-28-2019, 08:54 PM
On different paper sizes and directions, I assume the distance from the lead edge to the beginning of the crumpling is the same. So that is the distance from the over-driving area and the good section, or the dragging section and it's prior drive. Look at the distance between registration and fusing to see if that is the same as what I am describing. From there, either the fuser is turning too slow and the registration is turning faster, or the fuser is normal and registration too fast. I really doubt the second one. Been many years since I worked on Konica products but on the old 8050, there was a fuser speed adjustment where you had a certain paper that you ran in some adjustment mode and they gave a swatch with two shades of blue. The speed was correct when the color was between the two shades of blue. Just a thought and an idea of how to troubleshoot it.

Synthohol
05-28-2019, 11:36 PM
just a suggestion, change the paper type to thick 1 or 2 and see if it still happens, this will electronically change the timing/speed.
if it still happens in all paper types then i would start changing parts again.
if it goes away with a thicker setting maybe try fresh firmware.
just .02 for ya :)

blackcat4866
05-28-2019, 11:40 PM
What about clutch CL8? Are you getting 30-03 jams?

emujo2
05-29-2019, 02:40 PM
It's been afew years since I was in the field, but I seem to remember this as a common problem on anything with a 2nd transfer roller. I think replacing this solved the issue.

tulintron
05-29-2019, 02:57 PM
@ Phil. B.

the paper can be excludet! I have tested several qualities, the problem still exists.

@tsbservice,

yes, on the picture in the attachment, it`s A3-paper. That`s the best way to see it. However, the problem also exists on A4 or A4R.
I tried to change the setting from -20 to +20 in the fusing fixing speed, but unfortunately without success.:(
The problem occured suddenly and now every copy/print.Good Morning.

All the obvious has already been said. I would check the fusion loop sensor.


may have been broken by time of use or improper removal of paper.

Laserbeam
05-29-2019, 03:30 PM
@ emujo2
I have just installed a new tranfer roller, unfortunately still the old problem!

@ blackcat4866
I replaced the whole Fixing drive assy! In this assy there is a new CL8. no jam 30-03 occured.

@ Synthohol
the change of paper type to thick1 or 2 and Firmware update are also unsuccessful.

Gaffers01
05-29-2019, 05:28 PM
Hi looking at the copy out the flat bit before the wrinkles start looks like a similar distance from reg rollers to fuser
i know you said "The registration roller drive smooth (all 4 bearings are oiled)"
i would replace those bearing on both registration rollers and see if there is any improvement.

Laserbeam
05-30-2019, 12:29 PM
okay, this attempt I will do tomorrow!

fishleg
05-31-2019, 07:38 AM
Check paper loop sensor above transfer roller, that be my guess :).

Laserbeam
06-07-2019, 02:57 PM
Now I've changed following components:

vertical Transport assy (which includes the paper loop sensor above the transfer roller)
both registration rollers and bearings
registration actuator
CL6 from the main drive assy (which drives the registration rollers)

The problem still exists!!! :mad: the paper Comes out curly!!!

tsbservice
06-07-2019, 05:02 PM
Does the distance from leading edge to the first curl is the same on different paper formats?
Can't remember but did it curl from bypass tray?

I would try to cheat side door and figure a way to run copy without jamming up to the fuser to see paper drive.

allan
06-07-2019, 05:32 PM
Could be faulty control from a shot motor driver. Try control board.

Gaffers01
06-07-2019, 08:50 PM
Just a sudden thought, have you tried pulling the paper out when it starts to exit machine and see if it still curled. I remember on a c253 with million odd copies a few years ago at an engineering company they had a similar problem but only 2 ripples on the page and ended up being the exit tray. I ended up swapping with a different one.

Laserbeam
06-13-2019, 01:14 PM
@ Gaffers01

yes, I had already made this attempt. As soon as the paper become visible, I pulled it out under strong tension.
But the paper is still curled. Thus, the possibility that the paper exit unit is the cause, is eliminated.

@tsbservice

yes, the distance from leading edge to the first curl is about the same on different paper formats. It is also curled from the bypass-tray.

Laserbeam
06-14-2019, 01:28 PM
Problem solved!!!
The cause was in the reversal unit. Unfortunately, an error encured during my first error Analysis. I had a reversal unit installed from a BH C224.
However, this unit has a different gear (PN A161819200, 18T). The unit from BH C454 has a gear (A4FJ819200) with only 17 teeth.
Thus, the drive roller runs too fast and causes the curles in the paper.

blackcat4866
06-14-2019, 07:24 PM
Congratulations on finding that. Only a tech could cause that. Such problems can be very hard to track down. =^..^=

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