Do you think this is right?

[tonerhead]

Got word from the high command this week. No more filezilla or stunnel to compensate for older equipment, even though it is under maintenance contract. Supreme Leader said it is not in the best interest to continue supporting this equipment. Now customers are starting to squawk. Supreme Leader says it is up to us to tell customers to upgrade as we can not do anything further with computer/network issues.

So I ask you, my fellow copier gods to listen to my rant and add any comments. In my opinion, we should drop maintenance period on these older machines if we are not going to support them with computer/network issues. Supreme Leader doesn't want to do that though as it brings us revenue.

What say you?


1. Agree with Supreme Leader
2. Disagree with Supreme Leader

[zed255]

Re: Do you think this is right?

We absolutely WILL NOT implement and DO NOT support 3rd party workarounds EVER! We WILL keep a machine on a contract as long as parts and supplies remain available AND it continues to earn profit.

If the current state of technology means an MFP is obsoleted it is incumbent on the client to upgrade or be unsupported. They may choose a workaround if they or their IT are savvy enough to get it working, but they are on their own if it does not perform. We even get called out and end up billing a contract client because it is a workaround that fails or is not satisfactory.

So, that said I guess we agree with your high command.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Do you think this is right?

Easy solution. Cancel their service contract and put them on time & materials at your local market rate.

1st onsite Service response is next day. Travel time is billable.

The first invoice is refundable towards a new copier.

Your Supreme Leader is needlessly turning away revenue and motivating your customer to accept an offer from the next copier sales person who walks through the door.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Do you think this is right?

This is exactly the opposite of our philosophy as a company. We have 20 yr old copiers under service agreement. At a certain stage (obsolescence) the contract gets an extra paragraph.

For those customers that are waiting for their machine to turn to dust, it gets us a few more years of service income. Eventually each one of these will need something that can't be fixed with duct tape.

Does it gain us any additional loyalty when it comes time to buy? I think probably not. =^..^=

[tonerhead]

Re: Do you think this is right?

Easy solution. Cancel their service contract and put them on time & materials at your local market rate.

1st onsite Service response is next day. Travel time is billable.

The first invoice is refundable towards a new copier.

Your Supreme Leader is needlessly turning away revenue and motivating your customer to accept an offer from the next copier sales person who walks through the door.





I think exactly the same. Once a machine reaches an age, say 6 years old, it goes on time and materials regardless. But the Supreme Leader keeps it under a maintenance plan. Now we have these 10 year old buckets out there still under maintenance. I guess it would be nice if I didn't have to take the brunt of an upset customer. Plus it sets a bad taste in the customer's mouth. Whereas in year 5, we send a simple letter stating your maintenance plan will be discontinued in 1 year and we would like to extend the opportunity to upgrade as a preferred customer. I would think a customer would be more open to something like this. Rather than thanks for the money, but we are only going to partially support your machine due to the age of it. We have machines with a bazillion copies, that break down weekly still under contract. Supreme Leader doesn't have the balls to send out cancelllation notice on these. Customer bitches about machine performance and eventially updates with someone else.

[gneebore]

Re: Do you think this is right?

This is exactly the opposite of our philosophy as a company. We have 20 yr old copiers under service agreement. At a certain stage (obsolescence) the contract gets an extra paragraph.

For those customers that are waiting for their machine to turn to dust, it gets us a few more years of service income. Eventually each one of these will need something that can't be fixed with duct tape.

Does it gain us any additional loyalty when it comes time to buy? I think probably not. =^..^=

We tried to keep the older machines as long as possible. But eventually it lost us customers because we couldn't fix their machines. Parts got hard to find. Had a few analog machines with the old doc feeders with the wide long belt that pulled the originals in across the copy board glass instead of across the 1/2 inch slit glass. About 10 of them moved to another company with newer machines that the other guys came in and made sure the owners knew "And we have machines where you can get the parts" Eventually we did start dropping anything that had been out of production for five years because parts dried up and couldn't fix the blasted things. Not like experience with typewriters. Heck I could still get parts for IBM selectrics until three years ago and they wen't out of production in the mid 80's. Which a lot of older owners based their perception of how long machines could be kept running. Heck I actually had three IBM executive typewriters being used until late 2001. Yeah those machines went out of production in the mid 70's They finally got retired to the back of the supply closet because I flat out refused to work on them because of the lack of parts and of course the customer went and bought a 129 dollar portable typewriter and wonder why we woudn't put them under service contract.

[allan]

Re: Do you think this is right?

Its important that the technical and sales stays on the same page.
Now there is two songs sung. One buy the management and on by the tech on site that disagrees.
The customer picks up on that and this is where you can loose them.

Was there an open discussion with the staff and a news letter to the customers about this?

[gneebore]

Re: Do you think this is right?

Easy solution. Cancel their service contract and put them on time & materials at your local market rate.

1st onsite Service response is next day. Travel time is billable.

The first invoice is refundable towards a new copier.

Your Supreme Leader is needlessly turning away revenue and motivating your customer to accept an offer from the next copier sales person who walks through the door.





I think exactly the same. Once a machine reaches an age, say 6 years old, it goes on time and materials regardless. But the Supreme Leader keeps it under a maintenance plan. Now we have these 10 year old buckets out there still under maintenance. I guess it would be nice if I didn't have to take the brunt of an upset customer. Plus it sets a bad taste in the customer's mouth. Whereas in year 5, we send a simple letter stating your maintenance plan will be discontinued in 1 year and we would like to extend the opportunity to upgrade as a preferred customer. I would think a customer would be more open to something like this. Rather than thanks for the money, but we are only going to partially support your machine due to the age of it. We have machines with a bazillion copies, that break down weekly still under contract. Supreme Leader doesn't have the balls to send out cancelllation notice on these. Customer bitches about machine performance and eventially updates with someone else.

Worst customer we had like that was one that. We finally had to stop contracts on anything older than 6 years or anything past five years since the machine was replaced with a newer model. We had one that while not under contract they insisted on keeping an old Canon PC 720 in use. Even after they were told they needed a bigger machine. I knew their volume because they had three repeat service calls because the "machine was using too much toner" I had them put a case of paper next to the copier and use the paper only in the copier and not in anything else like for typing , faxing or printing. They use a case of paper in one week to ten days. Each toner for that machine was rated for approximately 4000 pages. Plus they had to have the fuser replaced every two to three months. They got tired of having the machine repaired by me so often they called in another company and he told them the same thing after he had to replace the fuser twice in four months. They eventually replaced that one too with a bigger machine with a page counter and actually found out they were doing an average of 8000 pages a month. Mostly because they were also duplexing the copies in the Canon by using the bypass. I knew what happened after they qui calling us because the tech they started calling was a good friend I knew from another compamy I worked for for a short while when I first moved here.

[Bix]

Re: Do you think this is right?

I'm with your boss, better new printers

[ddude]

Re: Do you think this is right?

Never tell the customer no, just tell them how much $$$$$$. If you are going to keep out-of-date machines on contract, make sure the contract is profitable, and gives you, the business, every upper hand. Give the customer every opportunity to upgrade, repeatedly. If the customer insists on keeping the old crap, make sure it is a cash cow for your business.

[SIN3R6Y]

Re: Do you think this is right?

SMBv1 workarounds and FTP are just plain insecure. Stunnel is just a bandaid for a deeper underlying security issue (especially for SMTP). I'm an IT sysadmin by trade, and i would tell people to only use these types of workarounds or less secure protocols if you are comfortable with letting anyone see what you are putting through your MFP. Except for SMBv1, i would never enable that, ever.

Sure with proper firewalling and tunnelling you can avoid that, and maybe a good IT staff can maintain it. But as a copier tech, you aren't IT staff. IMO, that's risk not worth taking on. People like to think of copiers like any old appliance, but they are computers. A vulnerable computer is a risk to the whole network.

So I'm with your boss on this one, but i'd probably try to offer some kind of less painful upgrade plan just to attempt to keep the business. But from a IT perspective, i have lost many customers over things like this, and i just move on. I refuse to potentially have a court case against me for running an insecure system just to try to save a buck. Simply not worth it.

[copiertec]

Re: Do you think this is right?

I'm 50/50 on this one. At the end of the day, the copier is a piece of technology, and technology is usually outdated after about three to five years. The issue is technology based (scan to smbv1) and it simply outdated. So, from the stand point of being outdated...it's time for new equipment as it does not have today's technology. Can having outdated technology be a detriment to your company (end user), in this case...YES. The company I work for has issued statements to all clients in old, outdated copiers that use only smbv1 that they are willing to work with the client and have offered rebates for new technology as well as a liability statement that they are not libel for any malicious attacks on their hardware or networks by using out dated equipment that does not have the latest scanning capabilities.
We have some Sharps out there from the Pastel and C- Dragon series that are using Sharpdesk with no issues, however, Sharpdesk is an FTP based program, which has security issues as well.

Now, from a mechanical aspect, a lot of these copiers still have a lot of life and it is unfortunate that they might have to be replaced because of this issue but the "wanna cry" virus and the rest that are coming, do not care about that. Could this issue be resolved by the manufacturers providing a simple firmware update? Hell... yes. But, there is no money in doing that, corporations are in it to make money, bottom line. Did I like Windows 95 and 7? Yes...but Microsoft is no longer supporting these OS. So, do I still continue to use them, no, I move to the next OS.

What gets me is some of the clients that are complaining about "leasing new equipment," they will pull up to the office, in a newer car that is in the high five digits or well into the six digit category, which they are leasing, then complain about leasing office equipment.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Do you think this is right?

If you want to stay current with 2019 mobile and Office 365 technology you have no chance when

Why would you expect manufacturers to try and support and hang onto discontinued product.

Seven years after discontinuation date and it is over. No more manufactures support.

I f you did not get the memo, the industry is into into selling new product. Not supporting old product.

We are not into trying to hang onto servicing discontinued product. It is too many models on the brain to remember.


I know there are lots of low end technology customers who do not care to save a buck also know as as used copiers resold.

I sold one today to make a quick $1,500.00 in profit and $750.00 in my pocket before taxes. Two hours work.

Six months from now some they will care. Technology, hackers and gov't regulations are relentless.

You really can"cheap out"today as a business owner on the lowest cost of goods but you will have to pay later on.

This is where I as a SalesServiceGuy have no patience with customers trying to hang onto old technology at a lower cost.

I have 20+ years of experience in this industry.

A copier is not usually used by one person in a workgroup but my multiple people all day long.

I do not care about the brand or where the customer is, if you do not want to spend the money on that one key piece of copier 2019 technology that your entire workgroup relies upon for productivity then I can almost gaurantee that business will ill feel the pain.

Business owners do make bad long term decision based upon short term revenues.

I have met plenty of business owners who do not have a clue about technology, I know have talked over their heads. Their business is plumbing, heavy equipment., framers, concrete etc. but I personally guarantee them a happy install until they sign off.

This is not a place to go to cheap but they are out of their league.

They need someone to put their trust in.

That is usually a ServiceGuy.

I am a SalesServiceGuy.

That is why I always earn more than $95k per year Canadian dollars.

I am both a Jedi warrior and and a valuable service tech resource. Rock on, dude! This is the real world Toshiba copier day to day duties. It may not be pretty but we get in done in 4-24 hours.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Do you think this is right?

We will keep a machine under contract as long as we can get parts. We will work on anything we can get parts for. We pick up customers when our competitors cut them off and say they can't get parts. We are the guys you come to when your contract provider gets pushy. Just imagine if car dealers did that and made you buy a new one every 7 years.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Do you think this is right?

This reminded me of Bama Tax Service. He had the last analog machine under a contract. I can't even remember the model. It was a Minolta clam shell type. When it was 13 years old, I tried selling him a newer one. "Damn it, Doug told me this machine would last 15 years!" was his response. He got a newer one last year. the Minolta was 17 years old.