[People] Techs and color copiers

[gneebore]

Ran into a friend the other day. He has a customer with the bad habit of not using grey-scale printing on a color copier for network print jobs. He did say he has repeatedly told them they were printing in color when using the default "four color black" print setting. Of course the customer also complained that they were printing black and white not color so why did it count as a color print if the print job came out in "black and white: like it was on the screen. He did say he finally took a magnifying glass and showed them they were actually using color toner by printing a jpg of a newspaper headline. Nice bold print and big enough letters to see the small dots of color toner use when magnified They could not understand why that was the default setting until it was explained. People bought the copier because it was color. The intended to use is as a color printer and most customers did not want to have to tell the machine to print in color every time. So the manufacturer set the driver as four color black as default then they could print anything and everything with a click of a mouse. Most customers understand this and will actually use the grey-scale print selection to print in black and white, depending on the ratio of color to mono print jobs. He really does not like to see the calls from new users about the high color copy count and finally printed an instruction sheet when each new color copier was delivered.

I remember having the same problems a lot of times and every now and then ran into meat heads that did not understand the concept of four color black. Too bad I didn't think of getting the magnifying glass to show them. I did however copy a newspaper and showed them how much sharper the color copy was compared to a black and white copy, especially when enlagered.

[Phil B.]

Re: Techs and color copiers

Ran into a friend the other day. He has a customer with the bad habit of not using grey-scale printing on a color copier for network print jobs. He did say he has repeatedly told them they were printing in color when using the default "four color black" print setting. Of course the customer also complained that they were printing black and white not color so why did it count as a color print if the print job came out in "black and white: like it was on the screen. He did say he finally took a magnifying glass and showed them they were actually using color toner by printing a jpg of a newspaper headline. Nice bold print and big enough letters to see the small dots of color toner use when magnified They could not understand why that was the default setting until it was explained. People bought the copier because it was color. The intended to use is as a color printer and most customers did not want to have to tell the machine to print in color every time. So the manufacturer set the driver as four color black as default then they could print anything and everything with a click of a mouse. Most customers understand this and will actually use the grey-scale print selection to print in black and white, depending on the ratio of color to mono print jobs. He really does not like to see the calls from new users about the high color copy count and finally printed an instruction sheet when each new color copier was delivered.

I remember having the same problems a lot of times and every now and then ran into meat heads that did not understand the concept of four color black. Too bad I didn't think of getting the magnifying glass to show them. I did however copy a newspaper and showed them how much sharper the color copy was compared to a black and white copy, especially when enlagered.

composite printing uses ALL colors

[blackcat4866]

Re: Techs and color copiers

If you take a look at the color test charts on the 4rth or fifth page you'll see samples of Rich Black.

There are several variations on rich black, the one I like the best is CMYK: 40, 40, 40, 100

In the end it's really up to the customer what they are willing to pay for. =^..^=

[qbert69]

Re: Techs and color copiers

Watch out for lawyers who use WordPerfect!!![emoji15] WordPerfect print settings will OVERRIDE system default settings causing serious confusion!!!...so when a user initially creates a document, they have to set their print color space or they just need to know how to change the color/b&w in document setup...you'd be surprised to find out how many ignorant lawyers are out there!!![emoji15][emoji57]

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[slimslob]

Re: Techs and color copiers

Even when they have it set proper to not print composite black, with most color MFP all it takes is for one pixel on a page to be in a color and the entire page gets a color click. The same is true when copying using auto color detect.

[gneebore]

Re: Techs and color copiers

composite printing uses ALL colors

That is what used to be called four color black. Been a while since I have actually been in the business so terms may have been changed a bit.

[gneebore]

Re: Techs and color copiers

Even when they have it set proper to not print composite black, with most color MFP all it takes is for one pixel on a page to be in a color and the entire page gets a color click. The same is true when copying using auto color detect.

Except when using the printer driver for printing and the driver says to print in grey-scale, which is black and white. I do know about the color copy with just one sport of color. A salesman used to show customer when training what would happen if they actually used an auto-color copy mode and there was one blue mark from a pen or a blue signature with the rest of the document in black and white. He showed them the actual difference in copy counts for color and black and white print counts before and after making five copies of each. And also showed them the grey-scale and auto color setting with five print jobs of a newspaper want ad page he had as a jpg on a usb drive. Oh yes he also added the copy demos were not counted until after the lessons were done and he was leaving so they did not get billed for his teaching session. Oh yes and I also showed them with a picture of their choice the difference when I told it to print grey-scale instead of color and it showed the number of color prints did not change but the black and white prints did .

[qbert69]

Re: Techs and color copiers

That is what used to be called four color black. Been a while since I have actually been in the business so terms may have been changed a bit.

[gneebore]

Re: Techs and color copiers

Watch out for lawyers who use WordPerfect!!![emoji15] WordPerfect print settings will OVERRIDE system default settings causing serious confusion!!!...so when a user initially creates a document, they have to set their print color space or they just need to know how to change the color/b&w in document setup...you'd be surprised to find out how many ignorant lawyers are out there!!![emoji15][emoji57]

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Not really I started working in the business in 1972 on typewriters and had a lot of lawyers as customers. Yes very smart in some ways but dumber than a box of bricks in a lot of other areas. I never did run into Word Perfect changing the default printer setting in the printer driver. But there more than likely was a software change in the six years since I was active in the business.

[gneebore]

Re: Techs and color copiers

Never saw the color spots myself without the magnifying glass on a laser color print. But never tried any way other than that once I put one in my tool kit. Now you actually could show them on an ink jet printer since those had less dpi than most laser copier and printers. But we didn't really have a big problem with inkjet machines since we did not sell or service them regularly. Just when customers carried their printers in for help with paper jams and other minor service problems. Way too many times when the machines first got popular where customers would buy the cheapest ink they could find or worse a kit so they could refill the ink cartridges themselves. And if we did not see an OEM ink cartridge the machine went right back out to the customers car before we even looked at it.

[qbert69]

Re: Techs and color copiers

Never saw the color spots myself without the magnifying glass on a laser color print. But never tried any way other than that once I put one in my tool kit. Now you actually could show them on an ink jet printer since those had less dpi than most laser copier and printers. But we didn't really have a big problem with inkjet machines since we did not sell or service them regularly. Just when customers carried their printers in for help with paper jams and other minor service problems. Way too many times when the machines first got popular where customers would buy the cheapest ink they could find or worse a kit so they could refill the ink cartridges themselves. And if we did not see an OEM ink cartridge the machine went right back out to the customers car before we even looked at it.

You won't see the embossed effect on standard paper as the ink gets absorbed into the paper and the colors somewhat bleed together!!! Toner, on the other hand, sits on the paper surface until melted & bonded to the paper surface. The only inkjet papers that I'm aware of that tend to limit ink bleed are the polymer coated photo paper and paper that uses the ColorLok Technology. [emoji57]

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[slimslob]

Re: Techs and color copiers

Not really I started working in the business in 1972 on typewriters and had a lot of lawyers as customers. Yes very smart in some ways but dumber than a box of bricks in a lot of other areas. I never did run into Word Perfect changing the default printer setting in the printer driver. But there more than likely was a software change in the six years since I was active in the business.

I started in 1970. I remember in the early day of word processing programs and networked computers and printers Word Perfect had an advantage over Microsoft Word in that you could actually select the printer from within Word Perfect and the printer settings could be stored with the document. With Word and all of Microsoft Office programs you had to change the default Windows printer. That was one of the reasons the law office I worked on equipment at preferred Word Perfect. You also got some desktop publishing features that with Microsoft you had to purchase Microsoft Publisher.

[gneebore]

Re: Techs and color copiers

I started in 1970. I remember in the early day of word processing programs and networked computers and printers Word Perfect had an advantage over Microsoft Word in that you could actually select the printer from within Word Perfect and the printer settings could be stored with the document. With Word and all of Microsoft Office programs you had to change the default Windows printer. That was one of the reasons the law office I worked on equipment at preferred Word Perfect. You also got some desktop publishing features that with Microsoft you had to purchase Microsoft Publisher.

Didn't really get too involved with pc's until much later. I did work on Olivetti computer terminals. But those did not have a hard drive or even a floppy drive . And all the "programing" was actually the mainframe they were connected to via a multi drop telephone line and a whoop-de-do fast 200 baud modem. Different input screens could be accessed by use of the f1-f8 key buttons if memory serves me right. The machines themselves had a whopping 8 k memory. But could be upgraded to 16 k for a lot of money back then. The machines were used for the NCIC data base. When you got stopped and the officer called in you tag number that was the machine they used to access the record on the state police headquarters mainframe. Or they just put in your name and address and birth date and got any criminal history you may have had on record. There were also IBM terminals at the same time too. We did not service those though.

[gneebore]

Re: Techs and color copiers

You won't see the embossed effect on standard paper as the ink gets absorbed into the paper and the colors somewhat bleed together!!! Toner, on the other hand, sits on the paper surface until melted & bonded to the paper surface. The only inkjet papers that I'm aware of that tend to limit ink bleed are the polymer coated photo paper and paper that uses the ColorLok Technology. [emoji57]

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Again we may be talking about newer(you) technology versus older(me) technology since it has been over eight years since I have used any color printer except my own Canon printer. Most inkjets have a standard output of 300x300 dpi for standard output, even color and four color black. You can of course specify a better or higher resolution print and get up 4800 dpi depending on the manufacturer. I have a Cannon MG2520 which can print at 4800x600 and it is not an expensive machine. I have in the past showed customers the four color black print where they saw the extra toner and ink use and did stop using the default setting and switched to grey-scale and then learned how to change on a per print basis to color when they needed it I just checked the print settings. The little inkjet does have three setting. Grey scale, standard and draft. So even the inkjet default is color or "four color black"

[brewster67]

Re: Techs and color copiers

To cut down on end user confusion I load the drivers twice on color machines. I go into system preferences on one and set the default to grayscale and label that printer B/W. I label the other driver color. Then set the default printer to the B\W and tell them if they want color to pick the driver labeled color in the drop down. This has been easier than having them go in and change settings.