Poll: Non-professional behavior.

[fitsy.13]

Ok, let's get this started.

Who would like to see members banned that give out Service Manager Modes and Total Counter Resets on open forum?

you cant ban for giving out how to get into the service mode.you should be banned for reseting meter counter though it causes no end of problems.our company often give the users the service mode to reset and error to tide them over until an engineer can get to site i see no harm in this personally as they are only total the basic resets and told if they play with any other sims in the service mode and it causes a problem they will be charged for it so i think the banning of giving out service mode codes is pointless because at the end of the day if they mess the machine up you get paid for it in a chargable call thats my thought on it and im and engineer not a end user and if you want to make it engineer site only you need to set it like the tessa site with company detail in which you manager confirms who you are.and just 1 more thing on the matter you have a collegue in the feild asking for help you going to sqay no i dont think you will i think you would help them then the problem is not with the people on here it is the site it says copytech if it is an open site then it shouild say there is other people apart from techs on here then you will know what you can and cant say

[prntrfxr]

Poll: Non-professional behavior.

I think just keeping end-users out of the technician section and somehow making it google proof (other forum sites have done it somehow) is the best way to go. I think any test that is administered to determine if you are a tech should be very basic and short. No hassle, customer has their area and we have ours. We can give out counter resets because we will be talking to just techs. There should be more restrictions about what info should be given to end-users. Violators banned out of end user area only. Too many restrictions and it becomes a hassle.

[Shadow1]

This forum was created to share information and make all our lives easier - I have no problem with anyone posting any procedure (including service codes) that makes life better for our customers. The better our machines run and the more helpful the techs are, the better and more valuable our company / copiers look to our current and prospective customers.

I don't want to see any requirements that would discourage someone from joining or asking a question to get the help they need. I see no difference between a customer trying to PM their own copier, and me changing the oil in my own car. If I mess something up, I'm going to have to pay a tech to fix it.

Having said that, resetting total counters is like rolling back the odometer on a car - It's immoral, it's stupid, most of all it's illegal, and posts relating to it should be treated as such. The post should be removed, the user should be banned, and it may even be required to report the incident in some countries.

[Zoren]

you cant ban for giving out how to get into the service mode.......... so i think the banning of giving out service mode codes is pointless because at the end of the day if they mess the machine up you get paid for it in a chargable call

dont u love ur end users......

i love them when they messed their copiers. they make my commissions better...

[blackcat4866]

I really couldn't care less about the endusers. It's the irresponsible professionals that need to be addressed. =^..^=

[aladin]

Giving or selling information it is the same, but I agree with Your opinion not to give all the information. This is not the only forum that you can share information on...
Problem is that we all not living in London, Berlin, Las Vegas,... , and our company and our boss not the same. This is not a perfect world and we need to fight to survive...
Ether you ban those people, or allowing them to continue, it will not make this forum any better or worse...

[deep]

It is not a secret on how to enter service mode or clear the total counter. The method is listed in the service manual. If the user is smart enough, they can know how to do it through the information.

[Juxta5]

I really couldn't care less about the endusers. It's the irresponsible professionals that need to be addressed. =^..^=

Consumers have ultimate control over irresponsible professionals. With proper education a consumer will become a service providers best friend.

For example: Let's suppose that there is a vendor that is able to undersell it's competition because it practices "unethical" behavior, resetting page counts, using sub-par or rebuilt parts, non-oem toner ... whatever, you get the idea.

The difficulty here is that your average consumer will use them because they want a "good deal". Fair and honest dealers/service providers have to charge more for quality... therefore they lose business to the cheap dealers. IN THIS ECONOMY I fear that this will become a significant problem. It is in your best interest to weed out the bad/unethical providers. More work means more money for the good providers.

* * * * * * *

Blackcat... if you want to promote ethical behavior, you might consider educating the enduser/consumer.

They need to know what to look for in a machine or service provider; what is considered ethical and unethical; if there are any dead give-aways about a machines that have been tampered with or altered etc., the problems with non OEM or "reset" parts, etc.

Since people are so successful at finding your site, perhaps they need something like "Things you need to know before you purchase a new or used copier, and what to expect from a service agreement." Something similar to Consumer Reports for the copier/fax and digital printer industry to promote healthy relationships between vendor & enduser. Give the enduser a chance and they will become your best support system 90% of the time.

It has taken me over 5 years to figure out what is a good machine and who is a good service provider. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there is only one vendor that I trust in my area. I am purchasing a Canon from him next week & WILL use him exclusively for service on that machine. But sadly I have given bad companies (2 of whom are no longer in business) ten's of thousands of dollars that would have been better spent with a reputable company.

p.s. I apologize for talking too much, but I do think you have an important issue here.

[blackcat4866]

Don't apologise. So far, Juxta, your comments have been the most compelling.

What you suggest is a monumental task. Too many customers look at price only, to the exclusion of everything else.

Wouldn't it be easier if us professionals would just act more....well, professional? =^..^=

[time2fly]

I think that it may be a good idea to try to monitor what is posted to this web site but it won't do a bit of good, anybody will be able to find this info. from the wonderful thing we call the internet. What needs to happen is to also mention the fact when the end user fumbles around in the service mode it will or could make there service contract void and could cause permanent damage to there equipment. Education is the best prevention. It's like giving a gun to a kid, without the proper education he might do some harm with it but if he is taught what that gun can do the damage it can do if not used in the proper way then most of the time he will leave the gun alone or tell an adult about it. Now I know this is an extreme example but it's the only one I could think of. I taught all 3 of my kids about guns and they know what to do when they find one ( I've tested them).
There will always be some tight wad out there that is always out to save a buck to the sacrifice of quality for money in his pocket, there's nothing we can do about that. To that I say too bad because he'll lose in the end with a broken machine and all the money he thought he was saving down the drain. I like what Blackcat said "we need to be more professional" about what we do in these forums. This site is here for a reason free "INFORMATION".