First of all, let me just say that I worked as a copier technician for 13 years and now I work in IT (although I still work on printers and MFPs as part of my job). I used to deal with IT as a copier technician on a regular basis, doing network installs and such. I've been reading some of these threads regarding your views on IT people and I just have to shake my head. I'm referring in particular to the IT vs. Tonerheads thread. Now, I've experienced both sides and I have no idea why so guys seem to loathe IT people so much. You guys have said things like "90% of IT guys have no idea what they are doing" and "The vast majority of IT people are idiots". Believe me, I have dealt with my share of idiotic and arrogant IT people as a copier tech. But there is no way that the "vast majority" of the IT people I dealt with over the 13 years I worked in the copier industry are as incompetent as you guys try to make them out to be. It's kinda funny actually, because a fairly decent percentage of copier technicians (especially techs that do network installs) end up going into IT. Why would you guys go into IT (or want to go into IT) if you hate IT people so much? That's like Daniel Carver trying to join the NAACP. I don't know, maybe I just don't understand your guys' logic because now that I'm in IT my IQ has automatically dropped 40 points. It couldn't be jealousy fueling all those hateful statements, could it? Nah...
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I don't think it's anything personal CB. I too have had a few IT guys tell me "It couldn't possibly be my network...". That's why everything works perfectly to my laptop.
Or the service call, "I can't ping the scanner NIC." and the cable is laying on the floor next to the switch, unconnected.
On the other hand I've learned most everything I know from guys like you. I started into networking mostly because the guys that knew what they were doing moved on to other positions, other jobs. My credentials were that I was the only one left to do it. And I don't claim to know very much.
Just enough to get a few prints & scans to go through.If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.
blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^= -
Any comments that I have made is not directed at any single IT person. As I have stated in the other post I have found many helpful and knowledgeable IT techs. I believe that the main rant was the ability to have an IT tech actually go and check the machine and settings to make sure that it is not the network. And some of the easiest things are the crossover connection, ping, verifying the ip/username/password. And in the event of a change of service provider the new firewall settings. Instead many (not all and not every time) decide that the error MUST be the copier and so they call us. Also the mom and pop locations do not have an onsite IT guy so they call the copier guy and have him show up and diagnose the problem so the IT charge will be smaller. As to the IT or the screwdriver side I do both. Not as much IT work as I would like but it is something to learn and use. If only to talk intelligently to the IT department of the customer. I would say that 70-89% of the IT type calls I have done, have been the customer's network and not a machine issue. However I feel I should not have to go onsite and show them time after time that it is their network and why after 10 times or more they cannot trouble shot it themselves.
Since you have turned screwdrivers you will be me diligent in checking these things out and not just calling in the copier guy when things do not work. As I pointed out when you talk in vague terms it may sound like we hate them when in reality we do not like being thought as the scapegoat. When we find a good IT department most of us will be more willing to go and help out. But when we find someone abusing (for lack of a better word) our skills or not even checking it out then we tend to delay our arrival as much as possible. (again not talking about anyone in particular).
This would be like saying most copier techs drive minivans. Where I work only 1 person out of 12 drives one.. So try not to take everything said here as a personal attack upon yourself or your job, sometimes we just need to vent about running into the same thing over and over and over again.
Thank you for your two cents worth...
And Star Trek was just a tv show...yeah right!Comment
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I would not take it personal. This is the "rants and raves forum" and we all have had bad experience's with the "IT" people. We just tend to remember the bad ones more than the good ones
Also most of the storys are funny
Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.Comment
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True. The nature of the human brain is to remember the bad things instead of the good ones. So, you'll always remember that arse that couldn't be bothered to tell you that he changed his network's IP range before complaining that he couldn't print.
Besides, it's just natural - usually the good IT techs will call you only when you're needed and when they spent all their options - which means a much lower visit count.
As others said, we're just venting - nothing personal!
' "But the salesman said . . ." The salesman's an asshole!'
Mascan42
'You will always find some Eskimo ready to instruct the Congolese on how to cope with heat waves.'
Ibid
I'm just an ex-tech lurking around and spreading disinformation!Comment
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It's great that you came from copier service background so you empathize with techs. I work well with most IT people I come in contact with by helping them understand how my equipment connects and performs. They appreciate knowing how to connect in a way that minimizes administration and the software that must be installed to the user while extending the functionality. Where we run into problems is when some guy who thinks he is brilliant because he is awesome on some Xbox game, disparages my product by declaring it dysfunctional because he hasn't done the necessary due diligence to properly configure it. When he takes food out of my mouth I am left with no alternative but to seek him out and tactfully expose his incompetence. It's not that hard to do, Microsoft training for example does little for printing and many of these guys don't really know much about it. Remember that the ethernet, laser printer, and GUI all came out of a copier company's research lab, (Xerox PARC). A good IT tech is concerned about his company's bottom line and users and is willing to research the technologies and adapt his skills in support of good business decisions. HP made billions off of sheep IT techs with a fierce loyalty to their products while allowing them to rape their bottom line in under the radar office suppies budgets. In today's tough economy I am finding more and more IT people are becoming more familiar with the economy of Kyocera's reliability and drum life advantage and are willing to change as an example.Comment
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I like and get along well with the IT guys that I work with. I make fun of them as much as they mess with me, all in good fun. I make it personal when they do. Example.... If I had to feed my family off the printers I sell, they would starve. The assholes I have a problem with are the ones on base who tell customers that they should only buy certain brands of equipment. Reason... they tell them some brands of printers won't work on their network...????. They have also told me that if everybody in my area used the same printer, it would make their job easier and they could do my job. It is not all IT people we are ranting about, just the assholes and idiots. I am sure IT people could say similar things about some techs they have met.The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen HawkingComment
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I didn't think anyone would even know who Daniel Carver is...
Not unless Sal and Richard do prank posts...Comment
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Well...time for me to chime in
My education, directly translated from Danish is called "Office Machine Mechanic". In fact, that only scratches the surface, since the name stems from when office machines included mechanical typewriters. These days, the curriculum includes shared classroom time with budding IT-Supporters/Admins.
My point: I went through the same base of education as most IT people, and if it makes any difference to anyone here, I completed a CCNA as an optional part of my course.
I have been through numerous "It must be a fault on the printer" situations that ended as mentioned above: 80% + network error. Sometimes complicated, I grant you, but the "IT people" never seem to grasp the statistics, and keep blaming our equipment.
Examples include:
"Cannot ping the controller" - it was switchted off
"LDAP searching is not working on any of your machines" - IT had changed IP on the DNS.
"Cannot ping NIC" - cable disconnected, broken, or connected to a switch that IT had disconnected from the network on the other side!
"Email scans not getting through" - gateway IP altered, spam filter engaged.
"FTP scanning not working" - password changed, destination folder moved.
I will admit that a SHOCKING number of copier techs know far too little about networks, but at least they aren't "Administrators"
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There is no real "hate" going on, but rather it's a two-way street with regards to respect. Although I do repair office equipment, I've been a network admin and help our district IT department with district "issues," so my passion is to stay around IT as much as I can. I will be a network admin again once I get out of the industry that continues to suck me back in due to my experience (and the fact that once one has experience in the office machine field, it's really easy to quickly get a job).
Anyway, what I meant by a two-way street is that 'most' IT people I've dealt with and worked with do not have very great personalities. It was as though they are pissed off at -life- for dealing them a bad deck of cards. Now, I'm making a generality of THOSE I HAVE DEALT WITH AND MET and does not apply to all IT people, as I have met some great IT individuals.
Sometimes, it's as though as soon as they know someone is not in their exact computer field, they try to be condescending and talk-over the other person, throwing out acronyms to try to prove to the other person that they know so much. Why? Why do they have to feel as though they need to PROVE to someone else how smart they feel they are? Just do the work, as the other people probably know something, like accounting, that the IT person doesn't know.
I would think that there could be a more cohesive relationship between all techs, yet it's like the tech/salesman relationship most of the times. Again, this is not an absolute, as I am generalizing here.
When I was an auto mechanic, people would come in and say, "Well, my car is doing xxxx so it HAS to be this problem." This is where it's easy to do the eye-roll, as it was pretty much always something different causing the problem. I believe that many IT people want to eye-roll others if the other person does not know exactly what the IT person is talking about at THAT MOMENT.
Well, this is why we all are specialists in one area or another I guess.
Bachelor of Science in Information Technology, Comptia A+, Comptia Network+Comment
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When did I say that anyone was incompetent? I was being objective, not defensive, yet it sounds as though someone is getting pissed off. It was only most who I have met and dealt with, and it was only Mac people. 
My point is that there can be people in ALL industries that will have a chip on their shoulders, and unfortunately attitude is something not taught, but rather a life-long skill that is constantly being challenged on a day-to-day basis. But, the IT industry seems to have a stereotype attached, similar to how the auto industry has a stereotype attached to the sales process, or the stereotype involving ethical issues surrounding some areas of politics.
I guess I've been dealt a bad deck of cards, because I must be the only person who has dealt with someone who tried to one-up me with their knowledge. When I was a dedicated network admin for a company, I had no reason to be that way, as many other people who worked there were very knowledgeable in their specialty.
Again, I'm just being objective. There are IT professionals who are very smart, there are doctors who are very smart, and there are mechanics who are very smart. Any industry can have people who are very smart. I've just found that, in my personal experience, being humble can elicit more respect in the long-run, that's all.
Bachelor of Science in Information Technology, Comptia A+, Comptia Network+Comment
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Schooltech,
Despite the fact the I quoted your post, I was only referring to your statement regarding our social awkwardness. The incompetent and arrogant references were from the multitude of other posts from other posters. Relax, I'm not going to get pissed over what some faceless guy on the internet says about my profession. This is more a source of amusement than anything else.Comment
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What!!! FACELESS????? OUCH!!!!!
Actually, it would be to everyone's benefit to keep it that way, and my avatar will reflect that.
No worries, as I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from.Bachelor of Science in Information Technology, Comptia A+, Comptia Network+Comment
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