How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be taken.

[pepper38_cnd]

At todays service meeting, My boss brought out a stack of jam lists he had printed out from variouse custommers machines. He pointed to one customer he had lost because they thought their equipment experience too many jams. The list indicated the MCBJ ( Mean Copies Betwen Jams ) to be 2000 . the Boss then stated that we need to be more scrutinizing of these jam list on every call and if the MCBJ is less than 5000 copies then imesiate steps have to be taken by the Technician to resolve this issue.
So I ask you this.

[Ollie1981]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

Depends on a few things, primarily though:-

1/ Type/Product Segment of machine and a rough idea of volume customer is running.

2/ Stock customer is putting through it.

3/ Whether the customer is a trained person who knows what they are doing when loading the machine, or whether they are a succession of braying "nobody trained me" dumbasses who appear to load the machine via catapult from across the street and wonder why it jams all the time.

I think we've all had this conversation:-

Cust:- This machine is a piece of shit, it breaks all the time, we want a replacement

Tech:- *Pulls out paper tray* There's A3(DLT) loaded here in your A4 only tandem tray

Cust:- Yeah well, the entire department comes in here including the night shift and nobody has ever trained us on how to use this machine.

Tech:- Right.... but that isn't technically a fault with the machine

Cust:- It's still a piece of crap that jams all the time for no reason

Tech:- *Loads machine correctly putting correct size and orientation of paper in correct trays, removes damaged and obviously damp stock and runs 250+ jobs testing all machine functions without a hitch*

Cust:- Yeah.... well ..... it's only doing that because it knows you're here, as soon as you go out the door it'll start jamming again.

Tech:- Sure..... sign this please.

[Zackuth]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

I would think that 1 jam per 1000 is about normal. However, if the jam report shows most (70% or better) on one code or from one area, it should be looked into.

[fixthecopier]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Every customer has different expectations. Years ago i was making a toner delivery to a training facility and checked the jam counter. On this Minolta Di250 he showed 389 jams from the top tray area. On this machine , top tray jams were almost always the customers fault. I looked at the only person in the room and ask "Hey sergeant , do you have a problem with the copier jamming?" He replied "Nah, it jams, I clear it and life goes on". I said "cool" and left. If I would have taken the time to demo the tray, he would not have cared and would have told nobody, and he was not an unhappy customer. Same contract, different place and machine. The irate customer said the machine was always jamming. A look at the jam counter on the Di520 showed 5 jams in 50,000 copies. I got my stuff and proceeded to clean and service this almost new machine, wiped it down real good and told him to call if it continued. He called 5 weeks later with the same amount of jams among 50,000 copies. I again cleaned and serviced it and he was happy. He turned out to be one of my very best customers because he always got the service he demanded. They all have different standards and it will vary also depending on how much they like their tech. The irate guy has been gone for years and the people who took his place are still my best customers. Liking the tech is really important. This great customer of mine buys all their printers from me. That may not seem like a big deal to you, but their is a directive that all printers connected to a network on this military base must be HP. I sell Konica and Lanier and these people have ignored that rule, just to buy from me because of the service.

As far as how many is too many. Make your boss set the standard of how many test copies are to be run to be satisfied. If the number is 2000, I would suggest bringing your own paper or customer will be pissed. if I think a customer is picky, i put it in test mode and after a few hundred copies i ask the customer how many more do I need to run. Let them make the decision. I also would want your boss to tell me how I can prevent the customer from loading paper wrong.

[charm5496]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

I agree with both the previous post. There are many variables and you just can't compare a 30 ppm machine to a 70+ ppm machine. The customers have different expectations and needs from the machines they are running.

[mojorolla]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

A jam/error log is just a font on a piece of paper, it depends what you can ween from it. While it is very helpful for us technicians, I always consider the following:

-Jam count at time of the jam. If it shows the same counts 4 or 5 times with the same jam, it is either the initial cause of the jam, or some moron trying the same crumpled page over and over.
-Paper size settings. If the size is wrong, the timing is off and a jam is recorded. Most folk tend to re-try it a few times, logging more an more jams. This happens often with new customers not familiar with their new machine.
-Corresponding mechanical codes. If I have a registration motor error and it's jamming in the same area.....BINGO!
-I personally clear all the logs when I leave. That way I know exactly what is going on the next time I return.
-Human stupidity. Do not underestimate this....ever. I had a customer running stapled stacks from the FEED trays! It caused so any codes the log started overwriting. And then I had to find all the staples...it has code hell.

I will also say if you take a few more minutes maintaining and checking the machine, it goes a long way.
If you are proactive, you won't have to be reactive as much.

[mrwho]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

Cust:- Yeah.... well ..... it's only doing that because it knows you're here, as soon as you go out the door it'll start jamming again.

I call it the "Dentist Syndrome". You know, when you sit on the dentist's chair and he grabs the drill and goes *whiiirrrrrrr!* "So, what's the problem?"

"None, just came by to say hello! Bye!"

I usually tell it at least once everyday - that's how often I get that comment from customers.

[JR2ALTA]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

I see people putting in their own variables, which is fine, but I think the poll question assumes how often does a great copier jam (sans operator error). 1 in 1000 seems right.

[Ollie1981]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

I see people putting in their own variables, which is fine, but I think the poll question assumes how often does a great copier jam (sans operator error). 1 in 1000 seems right.

But the point I was making is you have to consider all these other variables in deciding what is an acceptable amount of jams.

You can put two essentially identical machines in two different scenarios, for instance

1/ Customer A is local branch of a prestigious law firm, the copier is situated in the repro room where it is operated by Carl and Gary, Carl was trained by myself when I installed the machine, Carl has subsequently trained Gary. They use midrange quality stock for their day to day stuff and some pre-printed headed stuff to go out to clients. Carl and Gary only usually hit the phone when they have a problem they can't solve

In this situation I can be absolutely confident that any jamming issue is a hardware fault.

2/ Customer B is a High School, the copier is situated in the staff room where every single member of staff uses it. As far as I'm aware the customer did not request training when the machine was installed, there are tea and coffee stains and mug rings all over the covers, they use the most awful quality dirt cheap stock that isn't even anything like white and seems to be composed of at least 25% paper dust, one look at the service record (when or if you finally find the book, they like hiding it in bizarre places for some unknown reason) shows a succession of chargeable callouts to remove jams, clean up split toner and replace parts that have been broken when somebody has decided to "teach it a lesson" (see what I did there *bada boom tish*). The staff all think the machine is a POS and it somehow "hates them".

In this situation, despite the protestations of the customer, the jamming issue is usually down to the customer's lack of training and/or lack of interest. If (after investigating the problem) I find no issue with the hardware after an extensive test, the machine runs well on good stock and they refuse to listen to or follow my advice and keep calling us out then the chargeable form comes out.

[barratec]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

I agree with every one says that depends to many factors:
- customer skills using the machine
- brand and speed of the machine
- optionals (finishers, doc feeder....) installed
- environment where is installed(humidity, dirty places....)
- type of paper used

Generally when i have to talk with a customer about that i tell him that the machine works good ifthe average paper jam is 3/1000.

[michaelc]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

Fixthecopier hit the nail on the head. I have many customers and some complain over 1 jam while others do not care much at all. With all the different machines out there and all the different types of customers it is nigh on impossible to give a figure that would cover them all. If the customer is happy I am happy. If they are not then I do all I can to change that.

[blackcat4866]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm of the school of thought that if the customer is happy, I'm happy.

I've found machines with 2000 or more paper jams on the counter, yet when asked about it, they say that they run some crazy paper stocks, and expect a certain amount of "resistance". It the price that must be paid for taxing the machine.

The same day, I may see a machine with 2 paper jams on the counter, that "Jams Every Time!!!!!". For these people I usually print off the report, and point out the 2 jams in 25000 prints. The typical response is "Well that can't be right! It jammed just last week ..." Hmm. I'm starting to get the picture.

IMHO, there is no definitive numerical value that defines "excessive" jamming. It's more about the perception of the individual customer.
Sure, there is often an element of stupidity. "Whenever I use this stock it jams!" Hmmm. Let's think a moment. Maybe we should take a closer look at the stock, not the machine.

When I'm looking at jam reports, I usually consider 1 in 1000 "normal", for an average machine. Who's average? That's up to you. =^..^=

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

I think the bigger problem with jams is the frustration the users feel when they either don't know how to clear it or they think they cleared it by removing one piece of paper but there are others in the paper path that need to be removed and they don't realize this.

I personally think that most any machine out there with new feed tires or regularly cleaned ones should get through about a case of paper 5,000 sheets with no jams. Ideally paper dust will be cleaned after about as many copies. That's the standard for out own internally used machines and they run really well, rubber rejuvenating frequently helps. Minimal customer maintenance, such as: putting oil in the shredder after every waste basket full, I even rubber rejuvenate my windshield wipers about once per month, works well. My electric hair buzzer, brush it, oil it, lasts longer.

[jmaister]

Re: How many copies between missfeeds it too few? And imediates steps need to be take

Most clients up here uses the dreadful recycled 20lb stuff on large decks. Even if paper has grain, its fed not in the desirable direction, but you gotta love decks!

Jam log usually has anywhere btwn 200 to 1500, cant say to be sure. I now recommened 24lb recycled/plain if they like to see me less.

Repeated jam patterns sometimes lead to unreported error code or locked feature. Pending manufacturer, one would look up mods/bulletins/QA's/updates for solutions.