I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

[fixthecopier]

HP 4700 with a print quality defect along the right side edge. My in-stink told me it was the black cartridge. They quickly told me it was there before they changed the black cartridge. OK then, I will look at it from another angle, and came back the next day with a used transfer belt. That made no difference. The fuser was down to 6% so I ordered one even though I knew it would have no effect, they would just call back in a few weeks when the change message appeared. After putting the fuser in, and nothing changed, I ask to get the old black cartridge, just to see if there was a difference. He brought me an opened box, I put the cartridge in and made a beautiful print. I then pointed out to the Lieutenant the the "used" black cartridge I just put in , was in fact completely full. In the end , I consider it my fault, I let my guard down and forgot who I was working for.

[prntrfxr]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

"in-stink" ...LOL. That's funny. But about letting your guard down, you're right. It is your fault, but I'm sure we've all done this at one time or another. On the bright side: you'll remember this painful lesson for a while. You might have caught it before the fuser if you had done a half page test. But, the important thing is you got it fixed and the Lieutenant gets to feel like an idiot.

[Shadow1]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

"in-stink" ...and the Lieutenant gets to feel like an idiot.

Some people are not quite smart enough to feel stupid.

[fixthecopier]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

The call started with "I think we need a transfer belt, this one looks bad". I had put the belt in two months ago. I only bought the fuser because they would need it next month. Also as many times as it has happened, I should know that if they say it is not the cartridge, then it is the cartridge.

[blackcat4866]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

I learned this lesson well doing tech assist.

If I ask the tech to explain the problem and tell me what they've done, I've found I often get guided down the same wrong path as the first guy.
If I ask the tech to only explain the problem and don't tell me what you think is wrong, I can avoid getting influenced in any particular direction. Then I can ask, did you try this, that, and the other thing? Like everyone here I'm completely wrong sometimes, but I've come to trust my first impressions. =^..^=

[Ollie1981]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

Haha, I can relate!

What I'll also add is "I could fix it a lot faster (and cheaper) if you hadn't tried (and failed miserably) to fix it yourself first"

I'm talking about all those wrecked fuser rollers where some clown has dug out the jam out with a letter opener, breadknife or a screwdriver and now wonders why there is marks all over his copy.

Mind you fixthecopier, was it you who posted about a customer putting gravel/coal dust in the empty bottle of one of your copiers? That takes some beating in the dumb stakes.

I think we can all relate to this:-

This guy is an auto mechanic, I like watching his Youtube videos because although the cars he works on are almost exclusive to the U.S market and are rare here in Europe some of the technical principles are the same wherever you are, I'm an amateur mechanic, like cars and engines and find this dude quite informative and entertaining to watch. This video though sums up what I used to think when entering a customer's premises to find the washing machine in pieces with two inches on water on the kitchen floor.....

[igi]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

Hi all

i think falling in this trap is being a technician its wat is all about
any of us fell to this type of mishap,aleast once and then our brains kicked in
and since this moment we all know much better
fool me once-shame on you
fool me twice-shame on me
my personal brake thru came with sf-2027 old sharp
the techie replaced every thing but still h2-00 error persist,my first question was did you do sim-14
he tells absolutely i am not stupid he replies,
i went to help him after checking striping testing all voltages on the boards 4-hours later still no luck
then i do sim-14 its working 100%.
lesson learned,never again
my motto now disregard what the previous techie did and start your own testing/checking prosedure


cheers to all and good luck

[prntrfxr]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

Hi all

i think falling in this trap is being a technician its wat is all about
any of us fell to this type of mishap,aleast once and then our brains kicked in
and since this moment we all know much better
fool me once-shame on you
fool me twice-shame on me
my personal brake thru came with sf-2027 old sharp
the techie replaced every thing but still h2-00 error persist,my first question was did you do sim-14
he tells absolutely i am not stupid he replies,
i went to help him after checking striping testing all voltages on the boards 4-hours later still no luck
then i do sim-14 its working 100%.
lesson learned,never again
my motto now disregard what the previous techie did and start your own testing/checking prosedure


cheers to all and good luck

I work for a parts vendor that offers repair assistance when a tech gets stuck on a machine. I never trust what someone has told me. Mainly because sometimes they know what they did, but don't know how to fix it, don't want to fix it, or don't have the time. They won't tell me everything until I'm done, I guess, because they don't want to look stupid. I would rather they just said, "I didn't know what I was doing and I made a stupid mistake." Everyone does stupid things, I have. I've broken slit glass on fax machines, scan glass and mirrors on copiers, spilled fuser oil, dumped toner, fried boards, got shocked, and created error codes in machines that weren't listed in service manuals. We expect ourselves to be perfect I guess. Doctors call it "practicing". Why can't we view it that way? As practicing our craft. Mistakes are one of the best teachers. When I get to see machines often 3 or 4 techs have already looked at it, covers are removed, and screws are missing. I've had a box of parts in ziplock bags before, with "tech can't figure out how it goes back together". Those are fun (not). It is hardly ever a machine I've worked on when it happens. I have go download the service manual and try to figure it out. Most of the time we don't make any money on what I fix (We are not competing with our customers so we keep our rates really low.) I have learned a lot more than what I would have learned in the field, because the problems are usually things they don't put in the book (if they did techs would be able to fix them).

I wouldn't feel too bad about it. It's a lesson learned. Just makes you a better tech in future.

[mjarbar]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

I work for a parts vendor that offers repair assistance when a tech gets stuck on a machine. I never trust what someone has told me. Mainly because sometimes they know what they did, but don't know how to fix it, don't want to fix it, or don't have the time. They won't tell me everything until I'm done, I guess, because they don't want to look stupid. I would rather they just said, "I didn't know what I was doing and I made a stupid mistake." Everyone does stupid things, I have. I've broken slit glass on fax machines, scan glass and mirrors on copiers, spilled fuser oil, dumped toner, fried boards, got shocked, and created error codes in machines that weren't listed in service manuals. We expect ourselves to be perfect I guess. Doctors call it "practicing". Why can't we view it that way? As practicing our craft. Mistakes are one of the best teachers. When I get to see machines often 3 or 4 techs have already looked at it, covers are removed, and screws are missing. I've had a box of parts in ziplock bags before, with "tech can't figure out how it goes back together". Those are fun (not). It is hardly ever a machine I've worked on when it happens. I have go download the service manual and try to figure it out. Most of the time we don't make any money on what I fix (We are not competing with our customers so we keep our rates really low.) I have learned a lot more than what I would have learned in the field, because the problems are usually things they don't put in the book (if they did techs would be able to fix them).

I wouldn't feel too bad about it. It's a lesson learned. Just makes you a better tech in future.

As one of my favourite teachers in school told me - "The only stupid question is the unasked one."

I have always thought if you feel you know it all you are probably making a mistake, never assume any repair job is simple and try not to diagnose the problem before you have looked at the machine. With these little sayings in mind I have managed to keep myself mostly out of trouble and most of the machines I look at fixed, but as you say there will always be one or two that will teach you a lesson.

I can also relate to the ziplock bags - I'm trying to rebuild a process unit from a Canon iRC2880 that someone stripped down to component parts because they didn't read the manual that was available to show them what needed to be removed to change a part. I am now in the process of rebuilding sub-assemblies in order to rebuild the whole thing, thankfully there is no time limit on the job.

[PASTech]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

For us we live in Northern Canada and service our City as well as all the outlying native reserves and communities. Anywhere from 1 hour to 4hours away.

I usually have to try and diagnose the problem before hand but instead of coming to one conclusion I prepare for any and all possible causes and then some in order to try and not have to make a second trip. Of course I fail sometimes but it does help bringing all the obscure parts and such that you had to use once way back and that problem has never happened again but this might have that problem so bring it anyways.

For us it helps to pre-dagnose, just not being closed minded and make sure you recognized that you are only human.

[prntrfxr]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

You don't pre-diagnose or you'll be inevitably making a second trip. You ask questions and based on what you're given, you take everything it could be with you. Example: If you learn from client that they have a printer that is accordian jamming at the exit, your first inclination is not going to be pick-up rollers. A fuser and/or delivery (exit) assembly are your main parts. However, on a call I had to drive a couple hours to, I took a maintenance kit instead of the fuser, just in case. You are not really pre-diagnosing the problem, because until you see the machine, you can't.

[mikadonovan]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

I use pre-diagnostics every service call. That is how I decide what parts to take with me so I don't HAVE to make a return trip. Works for me most of the time.

[Akitu]

Re: I could fix it faster if you don't tell me what is wrong.

I did something similar, it wasn't pre-diagnosing, more so making assumptions solely because it was new... Call 4 hours out of town, was giving funny printouts in colour but not black. I had heard of the main drive gear of transfer belts causing a bunch of funny problems when they break, but I had assumed because I had put a brand spankin' new belt unit in the machine (never rebuilt, fresh outta the box) that it would not be the problem.

This was not the case.

The customer, in all infinite wisdom as customers known to possess, had decided to re-seat a full waste toner bottle, rather than doing the sensible thing by dumping it out or flat out replacing it. After cleaning up the giant mess that was inside, I had begun to diagnose the problem, going through the list and getting more and more drastic.

After 2 return trips for both a laser and a clutch pack, I decided to take another look at the transfer belt drive gear, and promptly kicked myself in the behind. Less than 5000 copies on this brand new belt and it had shattered the inside of the main drive gear...

Now they have a new machine, which we can only hope will be treated just a LITTLE better than its predecessor.