Gun Control

[Coptech]

Re: Gun Control

I found it interesting in Akitu's posts that Canada is more concerned with handgun ownership and the US has more concern with rifles.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Gun Control

There is a small town in Washington State. ( Riverside ) that has a law on the books that says home owners will have a gun in there house to deture crime. ( not sure of the reason) But the crime rate is ZERO. And I think there is a city in Georgia now that has the same law. Very low crime rate. ?

Maybe I like to think from both sides, but if I were a criminal, and knew that every home had a gun, then I would assume that every home had something of value to steal when the homeowners are gone. Also the town in Washington has less than 300 people. Not sure if they had a crime problem before, but I wouldn't assume a town that size would.

[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

Well yes fixture copier dude. Small town. So I would assume that everyone knows everyone. I sold the city a copier last year. Small country town. Cowboys, farmers, ranchers. Just good old Mayberry type town. But if you want drug money you might try burglarizing a home. Would be a bad idea in this town. Not sure about the size of the town in Georgia?

[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

2 points to consider fixthecopier dude. This is a lower to middle class town. Older houses. Nothing fancy. Looking at them you wouldn't,t think there were lots of valuables in them.

Also 9 and 10 miles away are 2 towns. Omsk and Okanogan. Close to 50000 people. Not that far of a drive to Riverside if you wanted to rob some homes. I just think criminal are stupid BUT not that stupid to drive to this town with the kind of reputation of everyone being armed?

[Akitu]

Re: Gun Control

I found it interesting in Akitu's posts that Canada is more concerned with handgun ownership and the US has more concern with rifles.

I assume it's because of practicality, I honestly don't know. What purpose does owning a handgun serve? For hunting larger game, you would obviously want a long-barreled rifle so you don't have to approach so much. A good idea when hunting for moose... Smaller game such as pheasants can be hunted with a bow. It's not to say a handgun isn't another tool to be used in hunting, but it falls into the grey area of not overly necessary. There's a lot of good hunting in Canada's wilderness...

The rifle issue in the US is just because it's the center of attention. Everyone has already accepted handgun ownership there, and elevated it to open carry or concealed carry levels as well. I wasn't kidding when I said it's rare to find anyone with a legitimate handgun and not an airsoft/bb gun replica as well, cops are pretty much the only ones you'll see with them around these parts; I can't speak for places in Canada I've not been.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Gun Control

2 points to consider fixthecopier dude. This is a lower to middle class town. Older houses. Nothing fancy. Looking at them you wouldn't,t think there were lots of valuables in them.

Also 9 and 10 miles away are 2 towns. Omsk and Okanogan. Close to 50000 people. Not that far of a drive to Riverside if you wanted to rob some homes. I just think criminal are stupid BUT not that stupid to drive to this town with the kind of reputation of everyone being armed?

Don't get me wrong. My town is heavily armed. The way I see it, the average person who supports gun ownership, already has one, usually a handgun, and usually more than one gun. I assume all of my neighbors are armed, I don't know for sure. However a large number of people who don't own guns are not comfortable with them, like my mother in law who gave me 2 pistols and a shotgun last month. They belonged to her late husband.

people who were forced by law to own a gun, even if they didn't want one, would take the cheap way and buy a simple shotgun or rifle that would stay at the house. The handgun owner probably also has larger weapons. He may take his handgun with him and still has guns at home. Using this logic, odds are if you are not home, there is something worth stealing in your house. In my town, guns are as good as money.

I would agree that it might lower the rate of home invasions. I think last month in Detroit, there were 5 different home invasions in which the homeowners shot the invaders.

[Akitu]

Re: Gun Control

I saw a Reddit post that the US supreme court ruled 5-4 outlawing "straw" gun purchases, ie. buying a gun on behalf of someone else.

What does this mean for a gun owner in the US? How has it affected you if you own a gun of any type? How has it affected your acquisition of new guns?

[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

I happen the think that is a good law there Atiku. Boy friend and girl friend go into a gun show. The guy is telling his girlfriend what to buy. You know she is buying the gun for her boyfriend who has a criminal record and legally can't own a firearm. I have a buddy that goes to gun shows. he is a dealer. He won't sell to these type of people. You have to show ID to buy a handgun or rifle . 3 day waiting period for handguns. But yes there are unscrupuious people out there that will sell out of the back door. They should pay fines and or some jail time for this in my opionion.

[Akitu]

Re: Gun Control

Different Reddit post here with some intriguing info by residents of Switzerland (which has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world apparently).

Zorthianator comments on TIL in Switzerland every male must attend military training and is required to keep his weapon afterwards, giving the country one of the highest gun ownership rate in the world.

The post linked here is a resident of Switzerland explaining how their gun laws work; several posts below is a summary of American gun laws. They actually look fairly similar, so where is the disconnect between the constant gun violence of America and the rest of the world's media focus?

I did some digging on my theory of having population density be a deciding factor in violent crimes. The source I found the most information from is Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt; the last census data on this was also done in 2010, so add some more salt. The four source pages I'm basing this idea off of are here.
Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of U.S. states by population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Gun violence in the United States by state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Comparing Switzerland to the US, the overall population density of Switzerland is 188/km2 or 447.4/sq mi. The US as a whole has an average of 34.6/km2 or 89.5/sq mi. Now this data does not support the theory on the whole, but that's an inaccurate representation of the US because of the changes in population density by region. Sorting the list of the second link by population density, and comparing it to the third link's data, we can determine that places with a population density above 188/km2 or 447.4/sq mi have increased gun crime rates. Sorting by murders/100,000 inhabitants, we can see District of Columbia is at the highest marker of 16.5 gun killings per 100,000 residents. This again skews data though because it's based on 100,000 residents in a state with a population of 601k. Sort by gun murders and the numbers become a little more in line with each other. Account for the variation by comparing data/100,000 residents with the actual recorded population.

We can see that in the same year of 2010, Switzerland had 0.52 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants as a result of a gun. The US clocks in at 3.6 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants. Taking that comparatively, Switzerland has a population of 8,000,000 and change; compared to the US at 308,000,000 and change. The data tells us this, at .52 deaths/100,000 inhabitants there were approximately 41.6 gun killings in Switzerland (just over half a kill point, what is that, paralysis?). The US following the same metric had 11088 gun killings.

What does this mean? There's a lot more people in the US than Switzerland. For the record, let's just throw Canada in there too. 2011 census clocks us in at a hair above 33,000,000 with a population density of 3.41/km2 or 8.3/sq mi. We clocked in right along with Switzerland at .5 deaths/100,000 inhabitants, although that data is circa 2009 it doesn't quite fit in with the above 2010 data, we'll have to make due. I'm doing this as an example, not thorough research. I wholly invite someone else to join me on this research so we may come up with some accurate data for further discussion.

With those metrics in mind, a population of 33.5 million (let's round up, I know Canada bypassed 34 million a few years ago but I'm going by official census data provided in the links above); Canada had 167.5 gun related deaths at .5 deaths/100,000 inhabitants and a population measured at 33.5 million. I could break it down and do a comparison of all 3 countries, and then further break down the US to exclude states that fall into these similar numbers if we wanted to compare the worst of the US to Canada/Switzerland/Imaginationland and see if we can figure out where the problem may lie.

On the whole, it appears to be that there's not terribly much more gun related crimes in the States than elsewhere, but the only majour difference is that the US has 10x the population of Canada and 39x the population of Switzerland, so with averages being the way they are, we're seeing similar data on a larger scale, blowing it more out of proportion than may be necessary.

All in all, this data can be inferred however the reader wishes to do so, I've tried to make it as unbiased as reasonably possible and just presented data as is. If any further discussion can be drawn from this I welcome anything and everything. Bonus points if you can supply data, facts and relevant arguments!

[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

Good info Akitu, I have no idea why one country has more gun killings over another. Might have something to do with in inner citys gang mentality? No father at home to set rules? I might sound like a bigot but love all races. And Switzerland has the same percentage of gun deaths as Canada but the whole population is armed there but not Canada. I have know idea. Like I said. Up bringing??

[Copier Addict]

Re: Gun Control

Good info Akitu, I have no idea why one country has more gun killings over another. Might have something to do with in inner citys gang mentality? No father at home to set rules? I might sound like a bigot but love all races. And Switzerland has the same percentage of gun deaths as Canada but the whole population is armed there but not Canada. I have know idea. Like I said. Up bringing??

It likely has to do with the training they receive. Plus, it sounds like they are taught from a young age to respect guns and treat them as a privilege and not a right. Just my thought.

[Iowatech]

Re: Gun Control

Maybe I like to think from both sides, but if I were a criminal, and knew that every home had a gun, then I would assume that every home had something of value to steal when the homeowners are gone. Also the town in Washington has less than 300 people. Not sure if they had a crime problem before, but I wouldn't assume a town that size would.

That's weird, if you were a the run of the mill criminal, wouldn't you find it more productive to commit your crimes in places where the absence of firearms was assured? Seems to me that would be the easiest way to avoid getting shot while committing your crimes.

[ZOOTECH]

Re: Gun Control

OK, I know I'll regret this, but these are my feelings. A "level playing field", where everyone is armed is not going to deter a "nut" case who has a weapon. Those people on prescription or illegal drugs, or what ever else psychiatric problems they may have could not care less if anyone or everyone might be armed to stop them. They will cause as much damage as possible, and then, as cowards will end their life; if not brought down by law enforcement or those carrying. I agree with others that these "nut" cases need to be put away for good, away from society.
So, while I'm in favor of gun control, (it should not be so easy, legally or illegally to acquire that weapon) I also believe in protecting house and home. A pump action shot gun should be enough. Where I have a problem is with the automatic "WMDs" that could overtake a small army. If, as 'patriots' we are afraid that our government will suppress us, then we have already lost, and no matter how many arms we have, we will loose.
The answer is voting for a change - for people that will represent us, the people, and not corporate entities.

[MR Bill]

Re: Gun Control

Zootech. You have been brain washed by the media. AUTOMATIC weapons are NOT legal for your average citizen to own. Damn. And in the U.S. There are only about 170 people out of 10000 people killed each year with AR 15 , AK 47 style rifles. It is not a serious problem. My goodness.

[ZOOTECH]

Re: Gun Control

Zootech. You have been brain washed by the media. AUTOMATIC weapons are NOT legal for your average citizen to own. Damn. And in the U.S. There are only about 170 people out of 10000 people killed each year with AR 15 , AK 47 style rifles. It is not a serious problem. My goodness.

No, not really brain washed; those 170 people don't feel that it is a serious problem either, I'm sure. How come those "illegal" weapons are still readable available? Tell those families that had someone killed by those illegal weapons that it's not a serious problem.