Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

[Jimbo1]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

Here's a doctor who can explain it for you. This is how it should be done.

[atwageman]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

I'm an American. My employer is self-insured. My weekly out of pocket for me and the wife is $45 a week. Copays are $20 and Meds regardless of what it is is $5 to $25. Also we have "ZERO" out of pocket for medical. To explain better......last year my wife had to have an operation. When it was all done and said, the bill was $58,000.00.......we had ZERO out of pocket on our end. Most people I know would have had to eat at least 15 to 30 percent of that.

A couple a years ago an employee was in an accident (off work hours). The final bill total was over $600,000.00 to put that poor bastard back together. His out of pocket......ZERO.

Am I blessed to have it this good? YES.

How can my employer afford to treat us so well? Smart financial decisions for almost 40 years. Always operated with zero debt. Pay cash everytime. Oh and one more thing....my take home pay ain't half bad either.

Now to comment on how the rest of you live. It sucks and I know what it's like to have the typical real world healthcare plan. As far as someone having to sell their house or declare bankruptcy because you were trying to stay alive or keep the 95 year old grandma alive well that's a persoanl decision, just like if I get cancer from smoking, I don't see how that's anybody's finacial issue, but my own. Life ain't fair.

Is our system in the USA perfect? No it's not. But I'm also not going to expect a person who goes thru many years of med school to settle for 40k a year either to be a doctor.

Now that I've done my part to stir the pot on this discussion, I've got to head over to justmanuals.com and download something.

[Darren King]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

I'm an American. My employer is self-insured. My weekly out of pocket for me and the wife is $45 a week. Copays are $20 and Meds regardless of what it is is $5 to $25. Also we have "ZERO" out of pocket for medical. To explain better......last year my wife had to have an operation. When it was all done and said, the bill was $58,000.00.......we had ZERO out of pocket on our end. Most people I know would have had to eat at least 15 to 30 percent of that.

A couple a years ago an employee was in an accident (off work hours). The final bill total was over $600,000.00 to put that poor bastard back together. His out of pocket......ZERO.

Am I blessed to have it this good? YES.

How can my employer afford to treat us so well? Smart financial decisions for almost 40 years. Always operated with zero debt. Pay cash everytime. Oh and one more thing....my take home pay ain't half bad either.

Now to comment on how the rest of you live. It sucks and I know what it's like to have the typical real world healthcare plan. As far as someone having to sell their house or declare bankruptcy because you were trying to stay alive or keep the 95 year old grandma alive well that's a persoanl decision, just like if I get cancer from smoking, I don't see how that's anybody's finacial issue, but my own. Life ain't fair.

Is our system in the USA perfect? No it's not. But I'm also not going to expect a person who goes thru many years of med school to settle for 40k a year either to be a doctor.

Now that I've done my part to stir the pot on this discussion, I've got to head over to justmanuals.com and download something.

Your concern for the financial health of doctors who work in a country with universal health care is not needed. The average salary for a Dr in Ontario Canada is $335,000 not $40,000. Also, your lack of concern for those less fortunate than yourself is kinda disturbing.

[Darren King]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

[QUOTE=Jimbo1;340547]

You don't really believe that works the other way round too do you?

I don't understand the question.

[atwageman]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

Your concern for the financial health of doctors who work in a country with universal health care is not needed. The average salary for a Dr in Ontario Canada is $335,000 not $40,000. Also, your lack of concern for those less fortunate than yourself is kinda disturbing.

What is your definition of less fortunate? Also the 40k reference was mainly for those who think a doctor should work for free because they are helping the sick, and trust me Ive meet a many of knuckle heads who think that regardless of what country you or I may be in. 335k is not a bad nut to make.

I'm not a cold hearted bastard. I give a lot of my time in the professional world and during my free time in helping those who want to really help themselves rise above. There some though you just can't do nothing with.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

As with a lot of discussions, it may be difficult to get across the certain points that stand out. Do none of you want to comment on the fact that insurance companies have departments who exist to drop insurance on people who have paid the premiums played by the rules and now need the insurance. Did you not see the part of the article where they , the insurance executives would not even commit to the stopping it, when the reason for the removal from the policy was not caused by the patient. It is pretending that this does not go on because it does not affect me. It is the attitude that "I got mine so screw everybody else." For those of you who have good and cheap insurance, and your children are covered, great!. President Obama has good news for you. As part of his insurance overhaul, your children get to keep that good insurance til they are 26. My oldest son who is working as much as he can and living on his own really benefits from this, because he works for one of those multi million dollar companies that work their employees just under the amount to qualify for full time benefits

Sadly a lot of Americans get all of their facts from sources that have an agenda, usually an agenda that leans to the right. On 1 such web site they are telling readers that under Obamacare, the cheapest insurance that a family can get will cost $20,000 a year. REALLY? So a family that is living on $20,000 a year will have to pay all that to the government and find other ways to eat. People actually believe this crap?
The fact is that the Presidents plan says that affordable insurance is..[COLOR=#163A79 !important]affordable insurance[/COLOR]" means that you pay no more than 8% of your annual income on insurance.

Other FACTS...


Medicaid.[/COLOR]
ObamaCare Women's Health Services Facts

health insurance for. ObamaCare chips Away at pre-existing conditions until 2017 when there are no more preexisting conditions for anyone, including high-risk customers.[/COLOR]
private health insurance now have access to preventive services with no cost sharing due to the new minimum standards of ObamaCare.[/COLOR]



JIMBO, I cut this out for your info...6 Million Americans Travel Abroad Each Year for Surgeries, Medical Treatments - Health News and Views - Health.com

An estimated 6 million Americans are traveling each year to such countries as India, Costa Rica, Mexico and Thailand in search of less-expensive treatments for simple and complex procedures. Even France and Belgium tend to be cheaper than the United States.
kneeand hip replacements and cardiac procedures
And that often includes the airline ticket.



bypass surgery



Quick answer, yes Americans travel for health care.

[Jimbo1]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

Hey fix! Watch about the last ten minutes of that video with a DOCTOR. Listen to his solution and tell me what you think.
Or don't Your choice but his is simpler.

[Iowatech]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

Let's turn this around a bit. What possible reason is there for anyone other than yourself to provide you with medical services? Just curious.

[fixthecopier]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

Let's turn this around a bit. What possible reason is there for anyone other than yourself to provide you with medical services? Just curious.

Why profit of course. Usually this question is ask by people who are already taken care of by their employer. The ones defending the current system are not having to do with out health care and do not care about those who do. I work on a military base and a lot of people I know take that same position. They will go so far as give that good old stand by line " Do you want the government involved in your healthcare " to which I respond "Shut the hell up you hypocrite, you have had free government health care almost all your life through the army!"

And JIMBO, really? Don't just find one thing that one person says and use that to base your case on. This would be a lot more challenging if people who want to challenge my positions would reference facts, figures and data. I used to write QS9000 procedures for GKN. Please use data to make your case. A great American,W. Edwards Deming, said "If you don't have data, you don't have any point you can make".



Again the point is totally missed. Why should the only way to get health care in this country be through a company who exist to make a profit, and has no interest in keeping me alive if it cost them money. The people responding to this thread keep changing directions when hit with facts.

[Jimbo1]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

Why profit of course. Usually this question is ask by people who are already taken care of by their employer. The ones defending the current system are not having to do with out health care and do not care about those who do. I work on a military base and a lot of people I know take that same position. They will go so far as give that good old stand by line " Do you want the government involved in your healthcare " to which I respond "Shut the hell up you hypocrite, you have had free government health care almost all your life through the army!"

And JIMBO, really? Don't just find one thing that one person says and use that to base your case on. This would be a lot more challenging if people who want to challenge my positions would reference facts, figures and data. I used to write QS9000 procedures for GKN. Please use data to make your case. A great American,W. Edwards Deming, said "If you don't have data, you don't have any point you can make".



Again the point is totally missed. Why should the only way to get health care in this country be through a company who exist to make a profit, and has no interest in keeping me alive if it cost them money. The people responding to this thread keep changing directions when hit with facts.

Hey if you want to live in such a manner you wait for the govt to give you your carrot, have at it. Did you even look and listen to what I was talking about or are you such a robot you are afraid to look?

[Iowatech]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

Why profit of course. Usually this question is ask by people who are already taken care of by their employer. The ones defending the current system are not having to do with out health care and do not care about those who do. I work on a military base and a lot of people I know take that same position. They will go so far as give that good old stand by line " Do you want the government involved in your healthcare " to which I respond "Shut the hell up you hypocrite, you have had free government health care almost all your life through the army!"

And JIMBO, really? Don't just find one thing that one person says and use that to base your case on. This would be a lot more challenging if people who want to challenge my positions would reference facts, figures and data. I used to write QS9000 procedures for GKN. Please use data to make your case. A great American,W. Edwards Deming, said "If you don't have data, you don't have any point you can make".



Again the point is totally missed. Why should the only way to get health care in this country be through a company who exist to make a profit, and has no interest in keeping me alive if it cost them money. The people responding to this thread keep changing directions when hit with facts.

So you expect to profit off of the labors of others just to keep you healthy? That's a pretty selfish point of view, if you think about it

[fixthecopier]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

So you expect to profit off of the labors of others just to keep you healthy? That's a pretty selfish point of view, if you think about it

So in a country where people dedicate themselves to making sure that every fetus is born because all life is precious, you are ok with people dieng becausethey can't afford health insurance? So at what point does human life become expendable as a cost cutting measure? Is the answer "When it comes out of the womb"? Seems pretty selfish to me.

[banginbishop]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

well I've had

[MR Bill]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

Well fixthecopier dude. You know more about this Obamacare than Nacey Palosi anyway. She said we have to pass Obamacare and then we can figure out what's in it. One of the dumbest things I've ever hear come out of a politicans mouth.

[Akitu]

Re: Why should someone get to make a profit for my existence?

The comment was made in another thread about Obamacare leading to socialism. Sooooooo...Any Americans want to explain how great our for profit health care system is the greatest on earth and all the others countries want to ditch their universal health care for our system.

I am interested in a friendly conversation using facts and figures. I am also interested to hear how abortions caused the holocaust, or the attempted genocide of a race of people, by a political party that had the phrase "God with Us" on uniform buttons.

Now, I'm only chiming in with my personal experience as of late with Canada's healthcare, which by no means am I arguing for.

Ideally, from my perspective - the perfect system is somewhat of a hybrid between the quality of the services in the states and the general access to serious medical claims of a universal healthcare system.

To use recent examples from my life - my wife has had to leave me to go to the closest majour city for medical procedures for almost 2 full months since November (being gone the entirety of November and Jan 19-Feb 8) and had to take my son with her because I have no babysitter or day-care service for him while I was at work. These trips were such an emergency, that I had to take time off work with no notice and actually be flown down from our city here.

The hospital in my city is very large, as it has to serve almost all of northern Manitoba, yet does not have the resources to perform a CT scan or an MRI. As soon as we were flown down to Winnipeg (capital), we were told that it could be up to a week just to get in for the MRI she was requiring. After this first week, we were informed there were more delays and it could be another week - being the husband I was legally required to escort her and my son to be covered by our "awesome universal healthcare" that paid for us to be flown down, but not for a place for us to reside. I had actually been expected to take all of this time off work without compensation or penalty. Keep in mind we were flown down for emergency purposes.

It was a very similar scenario this past month as well - again, all covered by our "awesome universal healthcare". Personally, if it meant not dealing with this BS and actually having her condition figured out (which they still haven't), I would gladly pay a small fortune for medical treatment.

Now, this is a personal example of how universal healthcare isn't exactly the greatest. Doctors and surgeons are only allowed to do so much work in a standard work week before they're not allowed to do anything further, and medical resources can be extremely limited sometimes. Am I glad I don't have to pay a dime for any of this? Yes. Am I upset by the fact they're pissing around and not really taking it seriously? Hell yes. Am I bothered by the fact that my own tax dollars are paying for them to not care? You better believe it. Would I want it changed? Dependent on what the final result would be.

Take this story as you will, regardless of which side of the argument you represent, but just keep in mind free is free and paid is paid. If you want the premium, you gotta pay a little extra. I'm of the opinion every health system needs reform, and that perhaps a bit of a hybridization between the two existing systems of "Free, but good luck finding someone who cares about their job" and "Fixing my heart cost me my arm and leg" wouldn't be a horrible thing.