I responded to a thread about aftermarket toner for Lexmark. I stated that I recommended my customers not use them, and the other poster defended the practice, stating how much it saves his customers. Personally, I haven't found an aftermarket brand that would not fail, eventually. So what is the opinion of this forum?
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The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen Hawking -
Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
No and HELL NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had that nightmare before at my former employer. He didn't listen and bought large quantites of aftermarket color toner for Savin color boxes. We replaced over 70 toner pumps in a year......Mystic Crystal Revelations -
Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
What symptoms do you want to talk about first?
1) overtoning/undertoning
2) poor drum cleaning
3) poor fusing
4) toner buildup on mag roller, fuser, other rollers
5) image quality
6) annoying messages (toner not installed, non-genuine toner, add toner)
Did I miss anything? =^..^=
7) Oh yeah! How about drive problems because the cartridge won't turn. Overfilled cartridges.
8) waste tone bottles packed full in days.Last edited by blackcat4866; 06-14-2015, 01:00 AM.If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.
blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=Comment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
But according to the poster in the other thread, the massive cost savings to the customer endears him to his clients. But when my customers have to pay me to clean up the mess, they don't see any savings. I tell all my customers to go ahead and use the stuff, I need the work.The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen HawkingComment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
I hoped that you saved more than $125 USD, because that's how much it's going to cost for me to remove it. Add to that any developer, drums, fuser rollers, etc. =^..^=If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.
blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=Comment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
I remember in the days of the coated paper machines that the paper pirates would call people selling paper at lower prices. If a customer who recently showed a large decline in the amount of paper they were purchasing from us called with a copy quality problem I wold take some of our paper with me. Usually the machine made good copies with my paper but not with the pirate paper. I would show the customer the difference. I would then offer to adjust the machine to the paper they had but would have to charge them to do so.Comment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
In this area, have seen many machines that are under contract with Authorized dealers using compatible toner for their color machines. I changed a couple of years ago and I have been using that same compatible and have found no issues to speak of, up to this point. Drums going and surpassing rated values, customers satisfied, have seen other after market toner(the one with the upside down V) being run in the same color machines, drums run 20K, if lucky, lines develop, lots of dusting. Like I like to mention to my customers, "Not all toner is created equal" OEM toner is the best though. Only use OEM on the B/W Kyoceras that we are placing.Comment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
I ONLY use GENUINE toner in dual component machines, but in mono-component units like Lexmark, and HP, I've had pretty good success with remans /compatibles
With those machines you don't have the issue with trashing Dev, clogging pumps, etc. If it fails for whatever reason, just pop in another. I've seen no measurable reduction in fuser lifeComment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
This topic is a "Balance Act" , I've worked long for large Aftermarket Company managing a large portion of the globe, now I run my own Office Automation Business .
It all comes dow to what supplier you choose and how big is the price (cost) difference to the originals. There is a large amount of manufacturers of aftermarket products , but very few are serious, long in business and reliable. The biggest issues with aftermarket quality is reliability , quality is good today , but next shipment not, very few brands have a quality control system in place to safe guard a linear quality standard.
I run aftermarket on all parts and consumable on my MIF (Konica Minolta, NRG and HP) being these Mono or Dual components , Color or Monochrome. My cost on toner and parts are significantly less than OEM, the profit generated by these guarantee to keep my technical staff employed , well paid , (financially) happy with their profitability bonus and benefits Also by having a lower running costs allow us to perform the PM's and change all parts accordingly to the OEM PM schedules and in this way we do not extending the life of the parts/consumable or having to push the extra mile on them.
We've had very few issues with the aftermarket products, basically only on the silicone feeding components which we switched back to OEM and have little to no impact on the running cost. Recently we've been rebuilding image and Dev units for the color KM machines , they work like a charm.Leonardo B. Brentar
Managing Director
Clear Image Technology, SLL.
P.O. Box – 112720
Blue Tower – Office 206
Sheik Zayed Road
Dubai
United Arab Emirates
Phone: +971 4 354 4408
Fax: +971 4 379 7916Comment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
Aftermarket toner is kind of like buying really cheap tires. Sure they will work. For some people they will go the life, but don't be surprised if they blow out with half life left on them. It may be a matter of suppliers. Some may be better than others. The customer only sees OEM and everything else that is cheaper. I have told customers that if they insist on using it, use a brand name. I see boxes of this crap that just say "Compatable Toner" and assume it was filled in someone;s garage. I have had customers that when they call for an issue created by cheap toner, they will say it is the first time, and will continue to use it. I have others, that after paying me several times to show them it is the toner, still keep using it.
Things I have never had an OEM cartridge do...
Instant drum blade failure
Pull the clear plastic strip and have toner pour like water on the floor
New cartridge only prints one side of page.
Shades background of print
Cheap label sticker peals back and blocks laser
Brand new cartridge is only half full
Week old cartridge dumps contents on transfer belt {this was an OEM Lexmark, but I consider them crap also}
Ghost image or blurry looking print.
In many cases the military customers stock up and buy what they need for a year. They have to use what they bought, no refunds. I had one customer who, after paying me to tell him about the bad stuff, had a similar issue, swapped the cartridge himself, then called because the issue was no better. I show up, change the cartridge again, fix the issue and tell them, Lucky you, you picked two bad ones in a row.
Some people refill their own ink jets supplies with no issue, others quit after buying a new printer after the ink leaks all over the inside.The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen HawkingComment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
Dear Fixthecopier ,
I've seen many weird things related to toner filling and remanufacturing, as refilling cartridges by spoon or cutting drums (sitting on the sidewalk) to fit in different machines. Certainly the ones you mentioned are the worse kind. There are few very good suppliers of aftermarket products (not exclusively toner) , but the rest of the gang are crap.
I have to agree with you concerning end users, they do not have the expertise to choose the correct product, normally the problem start there. I believe that a Service Engineer should advise on all matters related to copier/printer, and should be aware of market offerings.
I understand that the End User has purchased the toners from someone else, in this way a loose-loose situation , he bought "crap on the box" and someone else made the profit . By advising the right product to the end user the Engineer/Organisation makes a extra profit and the end user receives a "more economical" but quality product.
There is a lot of good "honest" money to be made from aftermarket parts , our customers love us when we save them 30/40% of their prices on fuser units, IU, Dev Units and etc.
I disagree with your analogy on tyres , while ago I've changed the BF Goodwrich on my truck from Khumos. They are better , less noisy and costed me 40% less. I think all comes down by doing the right research.Leonardo B. Brentar
Managing Director
Clear Image Technology, SLL.
P.O. Box – 112720
Blue Tower – Office 206
Sheik Zayed Road
Dubai
United Arab Emirates
Phone: +971 4 354 4408
Fax: +971 4 379 7916Comment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
So we've all seem demonstrations of poor quality aftermarket products. A true expression of the confidence you have in your products would best be expressed in the form of product warranty. How do you stand behind your products? You should know that you are presenting to a very critical group of individuals. When you say 4% fill/ 5000 page yield, that is what we expect to get. And we don't expect that within 100 images that the images will got light, go dark, fill the entire engine with toner, build up toner on the mag roller, build up toner on the fuser, or that the machine will require unusual unit replacement or adjustments to make your product work.
Care to address any of those topics? I'm listening. =^..^=If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.
blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=Comment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
Dear Leonardob,
You make some good points. A lot of aftermarket are better than others. As far as doing research, maybe 1 out of a 1000 customers would do that. In the 16 years I have been doing this, I can conclude that OEM is always better than aftermarket. I know this because my shop will use aftermarket fusers, rollers and drums. So from watching the aftermarket stuff fail prematurely year after year, I know this to be true. I sell remanned fusers for HP. They rarely go the distance an OEM does. Usually If I give the customer the prices with OEM being about $100 more, most will choose the OEM. Some businesses are poor, they have little choice but to use the less expensive. I let them know that there is a risk. Larger companies, who view any interruption in their office as a major inconvenience will always go with OEM. It is totally the customers choice. I have no problem putting refilled cartridges in a B&W printer, but sometimes they fail. If I sell someone an aftermarket color cartridge and it fails prematurely, they will want money back and expect me to clean the mess in the machine for free. It is better business for me to sell OEM.
If you make a good living and help customers out by saving them money, good for you.
If you tell them the aftermarket stuff is just as good as the OEM, then shame on you.
And as far as tires go, I always use the very best quality I can find, usually Michelin. And I also put top quality footwear on my feet. Some things you don't scrimp on.The greatest enemy of knowledge isn't ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. Stephen HawkingComment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
I will never use non oem products in my own printer because I've seen the damage its done however........
I know why dealers use non genuine supplies - cost! It enables dealers to compete against the manufacturers direct on CPC price.Comment
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Re: Aftermarket Color Toner, Yes or No?
Oh BTW the BFG's are a Michelin tire, and I've been quite happy with both. Put Kumo's on one of my Kids cars and they were alright for the first year and a half, then the car went away.............................Mystic Crystal RevelationsComment
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