What about?

[Cipher]

There would seem to be some consensuses that it's not a good idea to be too helpful or go into great detail on a public forum.

Mainly the lines of thinking being.

• Helping end users and those in I.T support takes away genuine service work from trained engineers.
• Manufacturers don't like their support material and higher tier support information being shared in the public domain.
• You are only helping the competition and those that don't use official channels to succeed.

So I suggest adding a few new membership groups and private sections that are only for qualified engineers.

The criteria would be members would have to prove they are a trained engineer by private messaging a moderator or admin with screen grabs from an current manufactures website or scans of valid certification that proves they are a qualified.
You could also add a minimum post count requirement before consideration to stop inactive membership from gaining access.

If the member is successfully verified by mod / admin then the membership group of that member is changed.

A example on how it would work:

Those in the Xerox qualified engineers group can view and post in a private Xerox section, but those in the Ricoh qualified engineers group or the normal members group cannot view the private Xerox section (and vice versa).

It's not a perfect solution but it does open up lines of communication among qualified engineers around the world in that they can discuss and share more sensitive information and procedures in some privacy knowing that the knowledge is not being shared with the entire internet.

Also it makes the moderation of posts and attachments in the public forums a little easier.

Comments on the proposal welcome and appreciated.

[EDIT] To make a point of sorts... at the time of posting this: 47 members and 459 guests online.
That's a lot of end users looking and searching the forums for a solution to a problem they have.

[ZOOTECH]

Re: What about?

There would seem to be some consensuses that it's not a good idea to be too helpful or go into great detail on a public forum.

Mainly the lines of thinking being.

• Helping end users and those in I.T support takes away genuine service work from trained engineers.
• Manufacturers don't like their support material and higher tier support information being shared in the public domain.
• You are only helping the competition succeed.

So I suggest adding a few new membership groups and private sections that are only for qualified engineers.

The criteria would be members would have to prove they are a trained engineer by private messaging a moderator or admin with screen grabs from an current manufactures website or scans of valid certification that proves they are a qualified.

For example:

Those in the Xerox qualified engineers group can view and post in a private Xerox section, but those in the Ricoh qualified engineers group or the normal members group cannot view the private Xerox section (and vice versa).

It's not a perfect solution but it does open up communication among qualified engineers in that they can discuss and share more sensitive information and procedures without sharing that knowledge with the entire internet.

Comments on the proposal welcome and appreciated.

I like this idea, but I'm not sure it could be implemented.

[Tonerbomb]

Re: What about?

Remember how this site is funded!!!!!!!!!!

It's not that I disagree with you, as some of your points I agree with. This isn't the first time I've seen this subject come up either. I've been on some other sites looking for info on auto's or home appliances, there's always a tech willing to respond for a fee. Those tech's pay a pretty price to be on those sites. And yes here there will always be some newbie that comes in and asks all the wrong questions and pisses off the consortium (just happened again recently). I prefer to use my own judgement and that of our piers in the consortium to decide if I want to respond to a post. And also if you segregate brand X from brand R how could someone from X bounce an idea off someone from R??????

I will continue to contribute to the consortium and donate to the site.............................................. .....Peace

[Cipher]

Re: What about?

Well there are certainly some members which act as the forum police and it's also an known fact that a select few members do in fact work directly for Ricoh and monitor activity.

Unfortunately this does suppress the sharing of information between engineers some what.
And that's a shame as you do pick up and learn things from others that official lines of support either are not aware of or are simply not willing to discuss on the record.

There has been a few times over the years I've wanted to ask for assistance from other experienced field techs on a problem but felt my starting point for the discussion or the subject it's self to be too sensitive to be posted in the open.

[Cipher]

Re: What about?

I like this idea, but I'm not sure it could be implemented.

The forum software (vBulletin) is capable.

Implementation depends on the administrator's willingness to try to be honest.

The most work would actually be on vetting members are actually qualified engineers and that someone is not trying to pull a fast one to gain elevated access.

But most manufacturers have moved to web based training and records now, and engineers that do attend training courses and pass normally are given a certification.

So it's not impossible.

[Tonerbomb]

Re: What about?

Did you know that here in the states, Ricoh has this same template forum running, and it started after they saw how well this site is doing ( just my observation, no confirmation from the mother ship) . Also the forum they run is barley used compared to this one, major diff is corporate moderators and you can get feed back from corporate service people.

P.S. when ricoh went to the online training a few years back they lost more of my records then they did when they merged the Savin brand in.................................

Now I'm off to finish watching the last Indy car race this year.............Peace

[NeoMatrix]

Re: What about?

[EDIT] To make a point of sorts... at the time of posting this: 47 members and 459 guests online.
That's a lot of end users looking and searching the forums for a solution to a problem they have.

One of those end users above is probably myself reading from my mobile or android. I don't always log in when I'm in a hurry.

I can understand your point of view , but what you are really proposing is segregation.
The basis of segregation is founded in a very very old law of divide first then conquer.

Given that your proposal finds a basis and has a genuine implementation --how do you propose a Technician who works on many different models becomes proficient to be classed as an expert, or receives the one-off-machine help they are looking for from your segregated closed off forum(s) ?

I believe the entire Copytechnet forum is self regulating in it's own right. There is no real requirement for separation of worth,class or status in any class room environment. And CopyTechNet is a classroom environment. I certainly don't profess to know everything, there is always someone who has been there and done that better than myself. I learn something new everyday from Copytechnet.

Overall you do make some valid points with positive intent, of which I commend you for.

[blackcat4866]

Re: What about?

Of the posts I respond to, I try to fit the answer to the asker. For example if a poster represents themselves as a professional, they should have no problem with manual reading, technical terminology, and basic copy process. If that same person is mis-representing themselves as a professional the answer won't help them much. If a poster represents themselves as an enduser, then my answers will address enduser functions, or why their request requires a professional presence.

There have been plenty of threads contemplating a testing procedure as to technical proficiency, but this has never gone anywhere. There will always be a group of readers that think there isn't any real skill to copier repair, and that anybody can do it. Having been in this business for a number of years, about 1/3 of the professional technicians in the field should be included in this group and have their screwdrivers taken away.

I certainly do not object to the basic concept, but cannot imagine how it would shake out. =^..^=

[JR2ALTA]

Re: What about?

This is life after the internet. Nothing we can do. Just imagine how many YouTube "how-to" videos are costing plumbers, mechanics and electricians dearly. I include myself in that category by the way. It's called "disruptive technology". Cool and scary at the same time.

[Cipher]

Re: What about?

Did you know that here in the states, Ricoh has this same template forum running, and it started after they saw how well this site is doing ( just my observation, no confirmation from the mother ship) . Also the forum they run is barley used compared to this one, major diff is corporate moderators and you can get feed back from corporate service people.

I wasn't aware of that as my official lines of support come from another region of the Ricoh global monster lol.

But it does not surprise me.

[slimslob]

Re: What about?

I do not think that it would help much. The "I want" posters would still be trying to take without giving. They would end up trying to hack the private groups. We already have had reports of members log in being used by others.

When I see someone asking for suggestions as to how to solve a problem, I do what I can to help. It is my way of supporting the site as money is tight and I usually do not have free funds to contribute financially.

When someone starts right off asking for firmware or manuals, until a little over a year ago I would refer them to Paul. Since Paul is no longer here with us, other than in spirit, I look at a couple of things on the left column of the thread and the persons profile:

1. Do they contribute financial? If yes, then I am more likely to assist.
2. Do they have red cards? This is a big warning flag to me that either they have broken rules or have been disrespectful to those who contribute, financially and knowledge.
3. Do they have green cards and how many? One of the indications that they are here to help others.
4. how many overall posts do they have.
5. What is their Rep Power? Another indication that they are here to help others.
6. How much information have they provided in their profile?
7. And finally the attitude that they display in their posts.

If I decide that I will provide what the person is needing I will PM and ask for an email address.

[slimslob]

Re: What about?

Did you know that here in the states, Ricoh has this same template forum running, and it started after they saw how well this site is doing ( just my observation, no confirmation from the mother ship) . Also the forum they run is barley used compared to this one, major diff is corporate moderators and you can get feed back from corporate service people.

P.S. when ricoh went to the online training a few years back they lost more of my records then they did when they merged the Savin brand in.................................

Now I'm off to finish watching the last Indy car race this year.............Peace

I have used it. Don't get many replies. I have noticed that the email sent went someone replies to a post includes the reply text.

[NeoMatrix]

Re: What about?

This is life after the internet. Nothing we can do. Just imagine how many YouTube "how-to" videos are costing plumbers, mechanics and electricians dearly. I include myself in that category by the way. It's called "disruptive technology". Cool and scary at the same time.

We do have a service-to-self Y-generation that is information savvy, but backside lazy. The reason for obesity these days in the younger generations. Y-Gen believe they know how to do it via You-Tube but wait for someone to do it for them. I call this magically life productivity the Santa-Claus syndrome. Y-gen waits for it long enough an it magically appears or happens out of know where.

Information is not working knowledge (know-how) though. The brain takes in information, tv,news ,books, videos and through practical experience turns that information into real knowledge.

Yeah I agree to a point with your statements, but perhaps you can look at it from a different perspective. You have to pass on all your knowledge to each younger generation the same as your own know-how was passed onto you. If for some reason during your retirement years you find yourself out on the street, cold, tired and no place to live. Just remember who is to blame. You never bothered to passed on your knowledge to the younger generation so they could build your retirement home for you. You never taught your apprentice to be able to fixed the copier for the Engineer to printout construction plans for the retirement housing complex that you may live in. The Engineer never bothered to teach his apprentice because he was so sure every one else would do it. The mechanic in his retirement now sits house bound in his rocking chair during his retirement because he never bothered to teach the younger people how to fix the motor vehicles that transport the elderly.

So you see where the real blame lies if people find themselves in future situation that they help create for themselves.

What good is a life time of knowledge that is not shared ? There is no future wealth for any generation if you take all your knowledge to the grave.

[slimslob]

Re: What about?

This is life after the internet. Nothing we can do. Just imagine how many YouTube "how-to" videos are costing plumbers, mechanics and electricians dearly. I include myself in that category by the way. It's called "disruptive technology". Cool and scary at the same time.

And when the homeowner screws up what would have been a minor fix for the professional originally now becomes a major repair job to correct what the homeowner damaged.

[slimslob]

Re: What about?

There has been a few times over the years I've wanted to ask for assistance from other experienced field techs on a problem but felt my starting point for the discussion or the subject it's self to be too sensitive to be posted in the open.

This is the reason for Private Messaging. Anytime you think I can help you with something that you feel does not belong in an open thread and you feel I can be trusted with the information, PM me. The worst that can happen is that I won't be able to help.

In the past, I have gotten PM requests for firmware and manuals. Usually they are from someone I do not know. Many include that they are willing to pay for the information. If I am going to provide information, it will be based on what I posted earlier and will be free of charge.