MFP to print envelopes

[irtek]

I have a customer looking for a machine to replace a Samsung SCX6345. The Samsung has never done a good job on envelopes and now it has other issues so they are looking to replace it. Need something with print and scan and will do a good job on envelopes ( not wrinkle or rub off). Speed is not as big an issue as first print out time. Most print jobs are small. Volume is about 2k a month. New or used. Does anyone know if the Sharp ARM-455 will run envelopes well? They have quotes on Canon IR2545 from 2 companies and a Toshiba ES-455 from another. Thanks for any input on this.

[Ianizer]

I'm completely out of my line element here, so I'll beg your pardon for my input.

The vast majority of my customers who run envelops (in various lines and brands) do not bother to purchase envelopes developed specifically for plain paper copiers... And who can blame them? They don't just give those things away I've been told!

The simple mechanics of a laser based, dry toner copier/printer tend to work little wrinkles in the edges and corners of envelope stock. Just the way it is. Certainly one box may be more forgiving than another, but a good part of the blame rests on the stock.

Running those cute little folded and glued things also involves transferring toner through two sheets of paper; depending on how the image is situated, sometimes four, plus adhesive!

The process is really rather a delicate balance, so you see there's more involved than seems at first blush.

The tendency is to look for a machine that "does it better", when in fact (and my brothers and sisters of All Things Reprographic will support me here), they all basically do the same job with little different jingley bells and whistles hung about them in various places.

Best of luck in your search. And when the salesdude or dudette comes calling, ask a lot of questions and take careful notes.

Best,
-I

[KenB]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

While I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, I've yet to see an MFP that handled envelopes at all well. I can say that every single one we have sold to do so (AFAIK) has come back to bite us in the collective butt.

If the customer is printing envelopes for billing, printed envelopes can spell disaster. If the envelopes somehow get out of order (even if just 2 of them transposed), it would be entirely possible that a customer could get somebody else's bill - just imagine the havoc this could cause. If it was anything medical, there could be fines, lawsuits, etc... (Oddly enough, medical providers, even suppliers, can be sued for malpractice; I just had that conversation with a customer a few months ago.)

A much preferred way for labeling billing envelopes is to print the customer name and address in the same spot on each invoice, and order preprinted windowed envelopes. This way, there's no possibility of a mix up.

If the customer insists on printed envelopes, they would be much better served by a possibly dedicated desktop printer that is specifically designed to run the little nightmares. While they may cost a bit more per click to run, they are a very reliable solution. (Although I still wouldn't recommend them in medical land. )

[seansbar]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

Here is my experience, it may not be much, but....

I only work on Xerox and Ricoh MFP. None of the Xerox I have seen tried can handle envelopes well. The Ricoh have done pretty well. I seen an AP610n with the special envelope tray work. As for MFP, please don't laugh, an MP4000 using the bypass has worked well. This MP4000 is factory spec, no fancy dev or toner changes here.

Mind you the only size envelopes these customer use is #10.

I second what KenB says:

A much preferred way for labeling billing envelopes is to print the customer name and address in the same spot on each invoice, and order preprinted windowed envelopes.

If the customer insists on printed envelopes, they would be much better served by a possibly dedicated desktop printer that is specifically designed to run the little nightmares.

I have seen HP printers with and envelope feeder work also, HP LJ 4300, 4350

[blackcat4866]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

IMHO, it's more about the envelopes than the machine. Do a little research on the envelopes, and test out a wide variety non-pressure-sensitive (use the kind you have to moisten), and look for the kind with square flaps and no metal clasps, and not smaller than COM10.

Like Ken suggests, a small desktop unit with a short paper path will do the best job, with the least amount of wrinkling. and be sure that it has fuser adjustment levers for envelopes for reduced pressure on the envelopes.

MFP's just don't do well with any envelopes. Each time an envelope moves from one set of rollers to the next, the machine puts a little bit of buckle into the paper to keep it running through straight. And each time it buckles, the two or three layers of paper shift a little, re-positioning the folds. With two to three layers of paper, there is not even fixing pressure across the envelope, and wrinkles are inevitable.

There is also what I like to call the Potato Chip Effect. Go to you're supply closet and take out a stack of envelopes. Set then on your desk. If the stack is less than 25mm tall the stack will set relatively flat. As the height of the stack increases you'll start to see twisting. The stack is higher at opposite corners. We're concerned about this because the leading edge going into the machine is no longer flat. The higher corner will snag, causing the envelope to twist & jam.

Accessories designed to feed envelopes are typically quite noisy because they thump the envelope to drive the air out of it. I've had good success with HP LJ4250/4350 series printers with the envelope feeder. The HP LJ4000/4050 series printers are getting a little long in the tooth, but work well with their own envelope feeder.

If you're doing large numbers (1000's) of envelopes there are thermal transfer printers designed just for envelopes. If you've doing a couple hundred the HP's will do.

I think all of us have spent time cursing at MFPs and staring at piles of warped envelopes. I even went to the trouble to alter a Sharp AR-M350N tray#1 feed unit. I added several ounces of additional weight to the pickup assembly, added additional mylars, and altered the paper empty switch. Honestly I don't know if it even worked.

Does that help any? =^..^=

[irtek]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

Thanks for the feedback on this. They are not printing a huge volume of envelopes. Their program is set-up to print a letter and envelope in the same process. They need the machine to have four trays so they can have envelopes, letterhead, letter, and legal. They don't have the room for a loaded printer and separate copier. I can get a good deal on a Sharp AR-M455 and since it is basically a printer with scanner added I was hoping that it might run envelopes. The main problem with the Samsung is that it does not fuse well on the envelopes and the print smears. They have not complained about the occasional wrinkle. I may have to go with the HP 4345mfp since it is based on the 4250 it should do ok on the envelopes. I have seen the 4250 do envelopes well. My worry with the 4345mfp is that I've heard the adf is not that good. I really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience on this subject.

[ddude]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

IMO, envelopes will be a problem in ANY machine-I have not seen an MFP that will play nice with envelopes. What the customer is asking for is tough, and whether you provide a printer-based, or copier-based model, the end result will be less-than-desired...you need to provide the customer a reality check here. BC has the best answer- fit the envelope to the product, instead of the other way around.

[blackcat4866]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

One more thing: If you select the HP (LJ4250 or LJ M4345 MFP), the fuser film will have a reduced yield depending on the percentage of envelopes. In the extreme, I had a HP LJ4350 that ran ~45% envelopes, and the films needed replacing at ~60K. Toner will start to build up on the film at the edges of the envelope, so letter sized prints show two lines, 4 1/8" apart.

When I first noticed I tried cleaning the film. It did clean OK, but only gained another 10K before it started again. I believe you'll see this on any film fuser (including the Canon). =^..^=

[mjarbar]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

We have had a customer with the exact same problem of printing direct to envelopes. Whilst it isn't an MFP we have installed a Canon LBP7750 alongside the copier they are already using.

As the company is a charity they will of course always use the cheapest option when it comes to the envelopes and so far the machine is holding up well.

Just my 2c!

[cccjjn]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

I've had good luck with the Ricoh color MFPs printing envelopes but they are the only ones I've had good results with. You pretty much can't beat an HP printer with the envelope feeder option for printing envelopes reliably.

Also the key to printing envelopes in any machine is to buy the edge glued envelopes, not the ones that have a V running down the middle.

[draph]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

To answer your basic question. I have a number of customers, (mostly law firms) running envelopes on the Sharp AR-M350/450/355/455 series and they are all quite pleased. Using tray two, (which is designed for envelopes) the machine does a great job. Like many have mentioned, like paper, it's important that your customer be willing to purchase a quality envelope.

Funny, last summer on a very humid day, one customers envelopes were so damp they came out of the machine sealed.

[kingpd@businessprints.net]

Re: MFP to print envelopes

There was never really an office based machine designed for low volume printing. If they're serious about no windows and printing addresses, etc., then bar none, the best and only thing to get is an address printer. All the mailing companies (pitney bowes, hasler, fp, neopost, secap, etc.) make them. They're inkjet based, and can print on about anything.

For low volume envelopes, spend a few more bucks and get window or double window envelopes. No muss, no fuss, stuff-lick-seal...done.

The other option is printing laser labels or using a brother or dymo printer to print the labels and stick them on the envelopes.