Need some advice on learning networking

[KenB]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I want to learn how to do this because I can see where it would come in handy but I'm having a hard time grasping how this is gonna work for a copier. I get that a DNS server ties an IP address to a webpage but how does it tie a copier IP address to the copier hostname?

I see nothing on youtube about it.

How do I set this up?

It works the very same way. Once the correct DNS entry(ies) are set in the config, you should be done; you can do this manually, or have DHCP do it for you. Note that DNS is not necessarily required for basic functions.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

It works the very same way. Once the correct DNS entry(ies) are set in the config, you should be done; you can do this manually, or have DHCP do it for you. Note that DNS is not necessarily required for basic functions.

So, I'm guessing this is something I can't set up here at my office since there's no DNS server?

[Tricky]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I thought about this and you're right. I do plan to learn wireshark but at this point in the process, I don't want to put the cart before the horse. There are other things I need to learn at this time. Honestly, I question how much of a need I'll ever have for wireshark. To this point, we've never had to use it.

Apart from the situation I described I doubt you will ever need wireshark at work and the fact in captures packets and unencrypted passwords means its a bit of a liability.

However for someone with an interest in networking you can install it and see the various packets floating around their home network after you have seen a few video's on the various types you will know why the device is doing it and for what reason.

[KenB]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

So, I'm guessing this is something I can't set up here at my office since there's no DNS server?

Your ISP is most likely providing the DNS. A few routers can provide it, but very few.

Run ipconfig / all from a PC and it will show the DNS servers in use. You plug those into the MFP, or have DNS do it for you. If the DNS is your router, the router is most likely just passing the information to the PC. If you have access (and permission), check the configuration on the web page of your router; it will be an address outside your organization.

If you have a server to play with (ideally a VM) you can set up DNS services on it to play with, but don't KEEP IT OFF your production network.

I found this video on DNS (amidst hundreds of others)which is quite informitive (albeit a bit dry):

DNS Essentials - Understanding & Working With DNS - YouTube

[DFM914]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Keep in mind, Wireshark is for last resort advanced troubleshooting. I have used it to prove that the problem isn't the copier but the environment. It sees every packet across the network including passwords and other critical information. Using a simple hex converter, you can decipher passwords or other information that company does NOT want you to have! Definitely a last resort for me.

[n25an]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Regarding dns... I have only ever worried about that when using host names for scan to folder and scan to email... and when using ip addresses... I try if possible to get the it guy to limit the range of addresses rhcp uses and then use an ip address outside that range and and for scan to smb I get the it guy to generate a user name instead of giving me the admin user for the server.... that avoids so many problems...

[KenB]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Keep in mind, Wireshark is for last resort advanced troubleshooting. I have used it to prove that the problem isn't the copier but the environment. It sees every packet across the network including passwords and other critical information. Using a simple hex converter, you can decipher passwords or other information that company does NOT want you to have! Definitely a last resort for me.

I agree.

A worst case scenario is to perform a capture, however flawlessly, and not be able to interpret, let alone articulate the results.

All you need to really top it off is a "less than sociable" IT manager who can smell fear. (I've had more than my fair share of those. )

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I've been playing around with DNS. I'm not gonna lie, this has been kicking my ass but I think I have some things figured out. I THINK.

Using DNS when setting up a copier is just a different way of doing things. Instead of using a static IP address, you're gonna use DHCP and instead of using an IP address, you're gonna print to a hostname. That hostname is gonna be resolved to an IP address...and that's done in the router in my case. Does that sound right?

Also, in my router, I see that I can can reserve any IP address if I wish. So, if the copier is on 192.168.1.125 and I reserve that address for the copier, DHCP is gonna always assign that address to the hostname.

Assuming that I have this right, it got me to thinking...why set up a copier using DHCP? Why not just always use a static IP address?

I suppose if an organization has a huge network and with a bunch of printers that it saves time because you don't have to walk around to every copier to assign an IP address and perhaps that's jut the way some IT guy wants to do it. I dunno. Just thinking. I'm probably way off base.

Still more to learn about DNS. It's a lot to learn.

[tsbservice]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

I've been playing around with DNS. I'm not gonna lie, this has been kicking my ass but I think I have some things figured out. I THINK.

Using DNS when setting up a copier is just a different way of doing things. Instead of using a static IP address, you're gonna use DHCP and instead of using an IP address, you're gonna print to a hostname. That hostname is gonna be resolved to an IP address...and that's done in the router in my case. Does that sound right?

Also, in my router, I see that I can can reserve any IP address if I wish. So, if the copier is on 192.168.125 and I reserve that address for the copier, DHCP is gonna always assign that address to the hostname.

Assuming that I have this right, it got me to thinking...why set up a copier using DHCP? Why not just always use a static IP address?

I suppose if an organization has a huge network and with a bunch of printers that it saves time because you don't have to walk around to every copier to assign an IP address and perhaps that's jut the way some IT guy wants to do it. I dunno. Just thinking. I'm probably way off base.

Still more to learn about DNP. It's a lot to learn.

Billy, in my eyes(keep in mind - not so experienced in that matter) you're going ahead blazing fast.
More of guys there're with dozens of years experience of networking, I don't expect anyone to become even closer to them before dedicate same amount of time.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Billy, in my eyes(keep in mind - not so experienced in that matter) you're going ahead blazing fast.
More of guys there're with dozens of years experience of networking, I don't expect anyone to become even closer to them before dedicate same amount of time.

Honestly, I have no idea how fast or slow I'm moving along. All I know is that I'm moving.


One thing is becoming clear to me...I need to get a server and learn it. One thing I learned a long time ago is its better to learn as much as possible in a controlled environment (my office) vs. the customer's office. Sometimes that can't be avoided but you really can't go to the customers office and just set up shop and try shit out.

PS - Apparently Ken is well versed in DNS. He's taught me a lot about DNS. Earlier he mentioned the A Records for DNS. I know the A records point the hostname to an IP address. At least I think that's what it does. Gotta get a server. Can anyone recommend one? Preferably a used one that doesn't cost a lot of money.

[slimslob]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

so, in my router, I see that I can can reserve any IP address if I wish. So, if the copier is on 192.168.125 and I reserve that address for the copier, DHCP is gonna always assign that address to the hostname. Assuming that I have this right, it got me to thinking...why set up a copier using DHCP? Why not just always use a static IP address?

More importantly it does not assign that address to any other device.

I suppose if an organization has a huge network and with a bunch of printers that it saves time because you don't have to walk around to every copier to assign an IP address and perhaps that's jut the way some IT guy wants to do it. I dunno. Just thinking. I'm probably way off base.

Still more to learn about DNP. It's a lot to learn.

Once the reservation is made you can then change the copier to being a static IP using the address that has now been reserved. Many quality IT that I have worked with will make a manual reservation without knowing anything about the copier/printer other that it is going to be installed in XYZ department. They will then provide me with that IP address to use. Others will tell me to use DHCP and then email them with the address used so they can add the reservation.

One of the advantages of using a fixed IP address that is reserved in DHCP comes in when a customer has a power outage. Without the reservation another device might get assigned the same IP address as what the MFP is using.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

More importantly it does not assign that address to any other device.



Once the reservation is made you can then change the copier to being a static IP using the address that has now been reserved. Many quality IT that I have worked with will make a manual reservation without knowing anything about the copier/printer other that it is going to be installed in XYZ department. They will then provide me with that IP address to use. Others will tell me to use DHCP and then email them with the address used so they can add the reservation.

One of the advantages of using a fixed IP address that is reserved in DHCP comes in when a customer has a power outage. Without the reservation another device might get assigned the same IP address as what the MFP is using.

That clears up a couple of questions I had. That's real world stuff and I appreciate you sharing, slim. I hope everyone knows how much I appreciate the help. This can be overwhelming at times.

[KenB]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Thanks for the kind words, Billy, I appreciate it.

There are pros and cons to static and dynamic addressing, as is fairly easy to see.

One disadvantage to DHCP, either with a reservation or not, comes into play when the main controller (or whichever other component that contains the MAC address), gets replaced.

AFAIK, since MAC addresses are in hardware, they can’t be changed on any MFP.

At that point, the IT department would need to be notified of the new MAC address, and to discard the old.

If the address is static, it’s a simple matter of plugging the old values in.

Another issue comes up with enabling software or even specific vendor utilities, which may depend on a static address. I work with a lot of software, such as Equitrac, Streamline, RightFax, AutoStore, eCopy and Laserfiche, and can tell you they can be finicky when using hostnames versus IPs. Even when they do work right, getting reporting to work is a nightmare.

[KenB]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking

Honestly, I have no idea how fast or slow I'm moving along. All I know is that I'm moving.


One thing is becoming clear to me...I need to get a server and learn it. One thing I learned a long time ago is its better to learn as much as possible in a controlled environment (my office) vs. the customer's office. Sometimes that can't be avoided but you really can't go to the customers office and just set up shop and try shit out.

PS - Apparently Ken is well versed in DNS. He's taught me a lot about DNS. Earlier he mentioned the A Records for DNS. I know the A records point the hostname to an IP address. At least I think that's what it does. Gotta get a server. Can anyone recommend one? Preferably a used one that doesn't cost a lot of money.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Need some advice on learning networking


That's pretty exciting. Networking is taking me down roads I never even thought of when I started. I don't know where I'd be without you Ken. Probably lost in the wilderness.