Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

[Bulakdot]

So guys, second post here since my newbie introduction. One of the reasons why I joined this forum is to ask you experts in this trade of your opinion regarding the situation below.

Location: my shop
Number of prints per month: 15-20k (will increase monthly up to 50k based on market forecast)
type of prints: photocopy and prints of school materials / B&W and color / mostly on copy paper or plain paper or bond paper (whatever you call it) / no finisher necessary

My first option is to get a single MFP color copier/printer from leading brands with 30-50 cpm. Now I have been wondering about epson products. What came to mind is to get 3 or 4 epson inkjet MFP with 10-15 cpm. Do you think this is a good strategy?

[allan]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

So you want to feed 4 little screaming chicks that s*its every where...

No paper capacity no ink capacity no output capacity probably no proper double sided function...
Not to mention the noise that it is going to make.

Use the right tool for the job.

50K? get at least one 45-75 PPM b/w.
And a 25-35 ppm color for a backup.

[allan]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Needs to be on contract.
Otherwise new, used or cost per copy.

Duplicator could be an option depending on the kind of jobs

[Bulakdot]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Yeah they do scream like kids.. singing inkjets they are.

Sorry but that 50k is only a forecast in the coming months. At this moment we are hovering around 20k only. Very short runs and varies a lot (1 to 2 pages color, 3 copies) to 1000 copies B/W double sided.

The reason I'm asking is that I have seen the new epson MFPs have proper double sided function, print/copy counter, basic ink capacity that last 2-3k pages. In addition, the purchase cost entry is significantly lower, and having multiple units served as backup in case of failure.

In my calculation for example, we could purchase 7-9 epsons for the price of a single 30cpm color MFP copier. One of the downside is the paper capacity for epson though.






Nah, a duplicator is not ideal in our setup.

[allan]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

You have to look at the total cost there including the time you are going to be putting in.
Even if you add all 7 of those inkies together the real deal will outlast the lot of them.

Look for low mileage used machines. Could be someone here in your area.

Wrong place to ask about ink-jets...

[Bulakdot]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Wrong place to ask about ink-jets...

Why is this so?


Anyways to continue the discussion, for comparison sakes see below.

Four machines 40ppm kyocera MFP A3 color = 1 epson 20590 A3 100ppm color
Six 25ppm kyocera MFP A3 color = 1 epson
Five 20ppm konica MFP A3 color = 1 epson
Five 36ppm konica MFP A3 B/W = 1 epson

From my research on epson 20590, there are still things to be iron out in them and not so many users yet. I don't want to be a test bed either. But the epson I am talking about are the desktop workforce series around 300-400 USD. As long as they bring in profit 3-4 times the purchase price+operating cost in less than a week I think I could throw them away. Business wise it is a win right?


Side question but related one. I am eyeing refurbished canon IR advance 5000/6000 series. How old are they now since introduced to market? 15-20 years?

Thanks

[tsbservice]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Nobody runs shop with inkjets.
If you can find buy second hand low metered 2 KM bizhub C224e/C284e/C364e series. They will be ideal for your volume now and in the future up to 50k monthly also.
Perfect machines, low cost per copy, good quality, very reliable and easy to maintain.

[allan]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Why is this so?


Anyways to continue the discussion, for comparison sakes see below.

Four machines 40ppm kyocera MFP A3 color = 1 epson 20590 A3 100ppm color
Six 25ppm kyocera MFP A3 color = 1 epson
Five 20ppm konica MFP A3 color = 1 epson
Five 36ppm konica MFP A3 B/W = 1 epson

From my research on epson 20590, there are still things to be iron out in them and not so many users yet. I don't want to be a test bed either. But the epson I am talking about are the desktop workforce series around 300-400 USD. As long as they bring in profit 3-4 times the purchase price+operating cost in less than a week I think I could throw them away. Business wise it is a win right?


Side question but related one. I am eyeing refurbished canon IR advance 5000/6000 series. How old are they now since introduced to market? 15-20 years?

Thanks

Toner dusts off ink not so much...
We here are mostly copier guys so the response would probably be biased.
Its not ideal using those inkies but after growing a bit we know what you will need.
In the long term making the right choices now will save you the money and the hassle.

Also not environmentally friendly to treat these products as disposable.

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

In the fine print, many inkjet printers recommend using higher cost premium or special paper.

For many inkjets if you mark the printed page with highlighter pen, the ink dissolves.

Most inkjets do not have any staple finishing/ folding capability.

[copyman]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Many inkjet vs laser powder toner comparisons have been done and laser always wins in the long run. Most show a bigger laser unit will actually pay for itself in a few years with what you will save buying ink for injets. Industry norm is LASER: 1 penny for B&W and 6 cent for COLOR.
INKJET: Up to to 30 cent for any color !!!

Only thing I can see with having 4 inkjet (throw away's) is 4 x's the ink expense and 4 x's the aggravation !!!

[SalesServiceGuy]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Many inkjet vs laser powder toner comparisons have been done and laser always wins in the long run. Most show a bigger laser unit will actually pay for itself in a few years with what you will save buying ink for injets. Industry norm is LASER: 1 penny for B&W and 6 cent for COLOR.
INKJET: Up to to 30 cent for any color !!!

Only thing I can see with having 4 inkjet (throw away's) is 4 x's the ink expense and 4 x's the aggravation !!!

... and 4x the garbage thrown in the landfill.

I am aware that Espon has introduced some funky new A3 colour inkjets. I have never seen one, I have never competed in a copier quote against one. You have to think the market share is very low.

[D_L_P]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

So guys, second post here since my newbie introduction. One of the reasons why I joined this forum is to ask you experts in this trade of your opinion regarding the situation below.

Location: my shop
Number of prints per month: 15-20k (will increase monthly up to 50k based on market forecast)
type of prints: photocopy and prints of school materials / B&W and color / mostly on copy paper or plain paper or bond paper (whatever you call it) / no finisher necessary

My first option is to get a single MFP color copier/printer from leading brands with 30-50 cpm. Now I have been wondering about epson products. What came to mind is to get 3 or 4 epson inkjet MFP with 10-15 cpm. Do you think this is a good strategy?

A while back there was another guy running a print shop with inkjet printers. Some may remember "aab1". Unfortunately, some techs here weren't very friendly toward him. He swore by the same method you mention. Seemed adding paper and ink cartridges several times a day worked out for him.

Check this thread out:
Can any laser printer/copier get a cost per page as low as inkjets?

[copyman]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Also not sure if it was mentioned (have some people blocked) but what about the ppm speed? That has to be factored in when discussing equip being in a print shop. Usually with a print shop speed = $$$. Faster a run is complete faster you get paid. Even 4 inkjets running same time couldn't beat a Biz 654e or C754e. You can prob get a low meter C654e/754 from off lease wholesaler for no more than $1,500

[allan]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Recently did a setup on a Canon G4411. Against my will obviously.
Seems to check out. Ink straight out of a bottle..
No chips no restrictions. So if you can find that juice cheap it runs cheap.
Cheapest home and small office solution i have seen for reasonable colour.

Fun cleaning out the period pads on those things.

Still not for a print shop.
Riso and now Kyo makes some high speed(150ppm) high volume ink machines with full finishing.

[slimslob]

Re: Realistic comparison between a heavy duty copier vs multiple light duty copier

Unless you want to be down for hour at a time, I would definitely stay away from having a single laser machine. I would also stay away from ink jet unless you do not want to appear to be a professional print shop. I have serviced machines for professional print shop and not one of them used ink jets.