Hey Screwtape!

[Penvy]

Would you know of a source for the DEV powder only for a C1,
I have read that irc6800 should work.

I am talking about just the developer, not the toner "starter Kits"
There has to be a source somewhere.
Thanks

[Guest]

These are sales item codes for starter developer for C1. The irc6800 series developer is different and there is only three colors that get change, Y/C/M. Black is mono component not dual component like the starter for the C1 imagePress, so there is a difference. Hope this clears up things for you.

PQ-1 STARTER BLACK 0401B001AA
IPQ-1 STARTER CYAN 0402B001AA
IPQ-1 STARTER MAGENTA 0403B001AA
IPQ-1 STARTER YELLOW 0404B001AA

[Penvy]

Thanks so much,
That was very nice of you to offer this info.

I was interested in a "test" to see the dev units really make that 500K.
What I have seen is that the mechanical parts should do this,
everything but the cleaner blades, I dont see them lasting anything close
to that.
What I wanted to do was to clean out the dev units completely,
get the DEV powder and add toner to the correct ratio and "restart"
them.

As you could figure out, then I would just need the dev powder "dispersant"
Iron oxide in bulk and use the toner thats already in the copier.

Thats what the toner does anyway is to keep adding as it is used up.
But what happens is the dev part of the "mix" is also used up and ends up in the toner waste bottle.

The question then is why spend$$$ for the starter that you could do
anyway having to "refresh" each color anyway.

1 bulk Bottle of the Dev Powder and add the color toner with the correct ratio. Its not that hard to do!!!!!

The cost savings would be great and you would have to do the work anyway.

The life of the DEV unit says 500K.That would come to 5 refresh cycles or every 65K
before replacing the entire color dev unit. maybe not !!! could be the cleaner blades and the side seals

Knowing this would be needed could give the C1 better overall performance
for the end user

What I have seen in this C1 is it all starts with the dev units running out of the developer but not the toner thus making for a ton of ATR problems and DEV ratio issues, along with the color image problems.

Now if canon could keep the "starter kit" cheap enough premixed $30-$40
then its worth it to use them.

Thanks again

[mrfixit51]

I see where you are coming from...

The value of using the "pre-toned" starter developer, is that the ratio is already at the canon factory spec. Running the machine at other saturation levels is going to run the risk of sending your color spectrum askew, and possibly causing the copier to run dirtier. Lets face it, some of these machines are real pigs, but it is still wise to follow factory guidelines to try and keep them running as best as we can.

just mrfixits 2 cents worth!

[Guest]

The value of using the "pre-toned" starter developer, is that the ratio is already at the canon factory spec. Running the machine at other saturation levels is going to run the risk of sending your color spectrum askew, and possibly causing the copier to run dirtier. Lets face it, some of these machines are real pigs, but it is still wise to follow factory guidelines to try and keep them running as best as we can.

just mr fixits 2 cents worth!

I couldn't say it any better myself mrfixit.
Penvy as much as want to find ways to save a buck or two we always end up spending more, let alone our time. Canon knows what they're doing, this is the way they stay in business.

[Penvy]

AT the time I started asking about this C1, there was no "starter kit "
No field reports, tech comments or even trained tech's in our area.

The software did NOT work with MAC's. even the software engineer
just put his hands in the air. It was even the wrong "server" for our app.

I was just asking to see who else went through this nightmare.
I wanted to see as I said before what the life of the dev units could be expected.

I do agree from what I posted it kind of read the wrong way on the toner/dev .
But in just the first year we had this C1, our year end P&L and Roi
we lost over $35,000 in work on this C1,due to it being down, waste, bad color match,
could not hold the registration on 2 side.........it was a mess.

BUT when it was new.....the first 50K was great.
at 65K.........just went down from there.


The konica's just kept cranking out the work
In 25 years in the business we have seen only 2 other products fail like this the HP indigo and the DI.........ouch

So if you want to flame me go right ahead.........canon knowing what their doing should of field tested it before letting the customer take the HIT.

I bet if you lost $35K you would want to save a buck or 2

[bnmand]

I bet if you lost $35K you would want to save a buck or 2

I would! However I think I would have thrown out the machine well before losing $35k. It'd have been cheaper. There comes a point when it costs you more to keep a machine than it does to get a better replacement where you have to cut your losses, throw it out and get a better one. If I want to save money I'd get a good second hand machine that is known to work well.

[Oze]

Just on a couple of related notes...
We don't sell C1's in our region any more....too much high maintenance.
Also...we've stopped restarting 6800 devs.
Even though restarting them gives you a good result in the short term,it never seems to last....so we just swap in new color devs...we still refurb the K units however.

[Penvy]

Had we known that but being a tech myself I gave CBS a 2nd and a 3rd chance to try to get it right.

And we DID tell them to fix it or remove it.......they did not.

Thats why I did not want to spend another penny on this.
The thing is and all of you know this.

Thats why were tech's.................we want to fine out how to fix it.
simple as that.

thats why I was looking into just trying to find out what would it take
to get this C1 to survive in a production shop.
Limited as it is the idea is a good one for the 1 image drum(4color) and ITB.

when it was working it was a great image in 12x18 full bleeds
with graphics(very slow spool) of full color.

The pantone #s did not match well and you had to tweek the hell out of is front to back to get to to reg, but when you got the settings
it would hold them on the full color.

on the duplex it was very slow unless you just did one side at a time.

Canon just rushed this C1 into retail too soon and we (the customers and tech's) took the hit.

The leasing company(canon) could not care less what problems it caused.
their contract has no warr or provision at all about any performance.

So when someone here says Canon knows what there doing, they are not on the other end of this mess and did not have to pay for a machine that did not work.

Canon knew what they were doing alright!

[mrfixit51]

No flaming going on here...

So when someone here says Canon knows what there doing, they are not on the other end of this mess and did not have to pay for a machine that did not work.

Canon knew what they were doing alright!

Hi Penvy,

I was simply stating that the color setup on this machine can only be obtained with proper starter mix,, there is no flaming going on here. I feel for you in this situation, we all have machines in our territories that seem like a turd in the punchbowl. So we all have to deal with our own problem machines. I do not like the 1 drum color imagerunner series, but I still get the opportunity to work on them. To paraphrase another tech on this board, "it is like a pig wearing different color of lip stick, but it is still a pig". I tell customers that ask me, that if color is important to you, then go to the added expense of the 4 drum machine, it is the only one that has a chance of holding color. Even then you can't expect printshop color on long runs, because these machines have been designed as "BUSINESS COLOR". The old CLC's were better at this.

Have a better day

[Penvy]

Thanks guyz,
This thing is a pig.....but with only 65K on the mach
I thought to just use it for the short runs, on demand
And it did that brand new!

I know how the dev units work and ware.
Right from the start when I saw how small the 3 color dev's were.
I knew right then they would never go to 500K
Good grief the big xerox b&w's are Huge and dont go 500K

Its one of those things where you put so much time into it and almost teach a tech class on it and as a tech you hate to just give up.
So what would make this "pig" work for my app.

Thats what I am looking for the Dev bulk powder.

As far as the ratio's of the dev/toner how you do it on this mach is to
start a little low on the toner and let the auto cycle bring it up.

You then ck the % ratio's on the dens units and see if they go up the
way they were before the 'Mix"

And I looked into the "starter mix".....$68 each

[Canuck]

Just a couple comments...the C1 is not a production machine, it is a proofing machine. Why is it so slow? Because this machine is constantly generating patches to maintain copy quality. If you want a C1 to run like a piece of junk imagewise, mix your own mixture. You can't match it close enough...the machine initializes the color references from the ideal starter mixture and if you are not using that(starter), the machine is lost, won't adjust properly or nothing. Pantone matching would be impossible...i could get better color from a 6800. When C1 is clean,calibrated and not fudged, it has phenominal color consistency and when using a Colorpass rip, has excellent pantone matching. But yeah, they cost a fortune to maintain the consistency. If this customer wants to beat on a machine,get him a CLC5000 or a V7000. C1 is basically a box to make proofs(color accuracy)... you can't even run 12 point stock thru them according to Canon, yet it has a paper thickness sensor that allows stock to pass thru up to 300 g/sq.m.....12 point stock is usually around 285!!! The head don't talk to the tail

[Guest]

It truly is a superb unit, but requires maintenance on a regular basis. If clients use it as some sort of graphic print machine using 60 to 80 or 90% ratio of toner coverage on each copy, its going to weaked and kiil developer. Canon base the life of the developer 500K on 6% ratio. You must do 6% or maybe even 15% of toner coverage if you want to get 500K out of the developer.

[Penvy]

You guyz hit it on the head,
Wow we found the same thing on the heavy paper; it will take it.
And based on 6% I could see that.

As I said before this mach looks as if it was put out to field test
new R&D.
Some of the functions like the 1 color drum in this size is cool.

Well I still have this Pig and canon wont pick it up guess they dont want it.
the searter kits are the safe answer i know that.

[Canuck]

Well the C1 is built on the 6800 frame....take it from there. Notice the blanking plates for additional toner...it was originally designed as a 6 color machine but i guess they couldn't get it to work right!! Canon needs to give their head a shake. They have no color product other than v7000 that they say will run 12 point stock....if a machine don't run 12 point a print shop don't want it. The color Xerox machines can basically run plywood thru them with no trouble..it seems like Canon is only interested in business color and not high quality production color(unless you wanna spend big bucks on v7000)