Disappointing output quality from irc-5185

[mutti8000]

Hi,



1: the output from the new machine looks a lot duller, than form their 3220.
I have experimented some with the rip it helped a little bit but not enough.
The output from 3220 is more shining and the colors are more vivid.



The color is very uneven; it almost looks like roller streaks.

I have tried the following with no change: Changed complete ITB assembly, Changed Drum, full adjust.

Please help, they are ready to scrap the machine and get another 3220 L


Otherwise the machine is in mint condition and has only 109.000 copies on the tach

Mutti

[D_L_P]

I can relate to this, I have 2 5180's in my territory and several 3200's which in my experience have better and more stable copy quality. One 5180 is in a print shop with very high expectations, which I just posted about actually.
I have noticed that test page 10 is very useful with these. If any color is weak or faded I have to replace it even if the drum has 10k on it, I have had at least 2 drums that were just horrible right out of the box.
I'm not sure if this is the best advice or not but for my print shop with high expectations, as a last ditch effort I, I went into service mode did a DC-Con clear then set everything related to CMYK or copy quality to 0. Service mode(level 1 and level 2)->Copier->adjust->color/dens and set everything to 0. There should be a print out in the front door inner panel, if not I recommend printing out these settings in case you need to revert back to the factory defaults. I can't say if it was that, DC-Con clear or taking out the ITB belt and giving it a good cleaning but the TP10 looked very washed out before and looked nice and solid after.

[SCREWTAPE]

I must say the 5180 is a much better choice in my opinion. In most cases light images start to occur when drums are getting weak. I know you said you change them. The machine as 109K, drums last about 70K base on 5% copy ratio(coverage on a page). Compared to the 3220, the drums are 40K. How many times have you change your drums? ALL, C>M>Y>K
What is the drum life for all drums at this current moment. This can be checked in service mode. Are you a technician?

We also must keep in mind that both of these machine are business color. There might be a difference with the toner that could be the reason to the matte finish look. As we know the toner is wax based overall.

As for the light images, check your secondary transfer roller as well and or replace it. There are patches for the GX100 that would address certain issues like yours. Also when calibration is done, you must calibrate the machine first then the fiery with the kodak strip. Make sure your using a post script driver with the GX100.

[teckat]

Hi,

On of my customers recently switched one of his good old 3220 with a used irc-5185 (actually it’s a CLC 5151 with a Fiery gx-100 printserver) The customer is a small print shop, quality is very important to them. There are 2 different problems with the new machine.

1: the output from the new machine looks a lot duller, than form their 3220.
I have experimented some with the rip it helped a little bit but not enough.
The output from 3220 is more shining and the colors are more vivid.

2: And this is the worst one….
It’s only noticeable when printing a large solid/semi solid of cyan.
The color is very uneven; it almost looks like roller streaks.
It occurs on the whole width and length of the page the streaks go opposite the running direction of the paper (sorry, don’t know the English term for this)
I have tried the following with no change: Changed complete ITB assembly, Changed Drum, full adjust.

Please help, they are ready to scrap the machine and get another 3220 L


Otherwise the machine is in mint condition and has only 109.000 copies on the tach

Mutti

Too bad it's a Business Color printer- Bottom Line End users need to do research before buying color machines
I would invest in a densitometer. You will never be able to match it up to a 3220
You mean CROSS-FEED =front to back of printer ??
Always check image quality on ITB before it transfers to paper- you need to determine at what point the problem starts.
You can always stop a pg5 half way and check iimage on drum
Run a pg5 Cyan only -remove right side cover to look at ITB image-look to see how it looks before transfer to paper !!!

or Check the Cyan Drum ground tab - Check and clean the drum ground tab located inside the front drum access cover.

Test Developer drive motor - Test for motor operation in service mode: Copier/Function/Part-Chk/Mtr, Y=18, M=19,C=20,K=21 Replace motor if necessary - for effected color ( FK2-2518-000 )

[SCREWTAPE]

You can also check out the printer settings menu under additional functions. There is all lot stuff you can tweak up. Of course after you resolve your issue.

[mutti8000]

I must say the 5180 is a much better choice in my opinion. In most cases light images start to occur when drums are getting weak. I know you said you change them. The machine as 109K, drums last about 70K base on 5% copy ratio(coverage on a page). Compared to the 3220, the drums are 40K. How many times have you change your drums? ALL, C>M>Y>K
What is the drum life for all drums at this current moment. This can be checked in service mode. Are you a technician?

We also must keep in mind that both of these machine are business color. There might be a difference with the toner that could be the reason to the matte finish look. As we know the toner is wax based overall.

As for the light images, check your secondary transfer roller as well and or replace it. There are patches for the GX100 that would address certain issues like yours. Also when calibration is done, you must calibrate the machine first then the fiery with the kodak strip. Make sure your using a post script driver with the GX100.

Thanks for all your replies!

I will check out the image quality on the ITB.
What would you guys recommend to cleand the ITB with?

The drum life ranges from 3 black to 10 cyan, magenta and yellow in between.
The Customer recently aquired the machine, and we don't got any maintenance history prior to that.
I Replaced evertyhing that neede to be replaced prior to delivery of the machine. New drums, ITB (comlete unit) Cleaning blade and pick up rubber.

Im not a Canon trained technician, but have worked on Canon machines for many years, and has acces to sevice manuals and upgrades etc.

Im not able to find any Fiery upgrades apart from the security ones.
Please see the attached picture, it give a good indicatiuon of my problem.

The machine is actually sold as a light production model here in Europe as the CLC5151

lighthouse3..jpg

[teckat]

Thanks for all your replies!

I will check out the image quality on the ITB.
What would you guys recommend to cleand the ITB with?

The drum life ranges from 3 black to 10 cyan, magenta and yellow in between.
The Customer recently aquired the machine, and we don't got any maintenance history prior to that.
I Replaced evertyhing that neede to be replaced prior to delivery of the machine. New drums, ITB (comlete unit) Cleaning blade and pick up rubber.

Im not a Canon trained technician, but have worked on Canon machines for many years, and has acces to sevice manuals and upgrades etc.

Im not able to find any Fiery upgrades apart from the security ones.
Please see the attached picture, it give a good indicatiuon of my problem.

The machine is actually sold as a light production model here in Europe as the CLC5151

[ATTACH=CONFIG]3721[/ATTACH]

If u are going to use this printer for 95% coverage like that expect to get only 7/10 k from drums,maybe even less. U should NOT be cleaning that ITB belt. That is for the cleaning blade/ u need to replace the Separation roller. Did u know what they meant by light business / means an average of 5% to 8% coveradge . Not Full Bleed . U will have to set up a good maintainance sch on this printer.

Why they call this a CLC in Europe is beyond me/this is an imageRunner clone of 5185. If u had a CLC5100 or an imagePress u would be able to do this type of production.

[SCREWTAPE]

N

If u are going to use this printer for 95% coverage like that expect to get only 7/10 k from drums,maybe even less. U should NOT be cleaning that ITB belt. That is for the cleaning blade/ u need to replace the Separation roller. Did u know what they meant by light business / means an average of 5% to 8% coveradge . Not Full Bleed . U will have to set up a good maintainance sch on this printer.
Why they call this a CLC in Europe is beyond me/this is an imageRunner clone of 5185. If u had a CLC5100 or an imagePress u would be able to do this type of production.

Well said..

As for comment CLC vs IRC. Its marketing.

[RRodgers]

Yeah it drives me nuts when a customer get's a "business color" box and then expects it to do pictures all day long and REALLY WELL! Half of the blame goes on the salesman.

[mutti8000]

OK, i will try to lower my customers expectations a bit!

The above picture was only an example where the error was very clear for you guys to see.
The typical job will be 4-8% coverage (business vards, flyers etc.)

Business color or not i must have a problem on this machine or is the 3220 really better?

[SCREWTAPE]

Yeah it drives me nuts when a customer get's a "business color" box and then expects it to do pictures all day long and REALLY WELL! Half of the blame goes on the salesman.

Well that's true.
Another reason, some buyers just can't afford to buy a more advanced box.

[RRodgers]

How come my Pinto won't tow my toy box fully loaded any more?

[teckat]

OK, i will try to lower my customers expectations a bit!

The above picture was only an example where the error was very clear for you guys to see.
The typical job will be 4-8% coverage (business vards, flyers etc.)

Business color or not i must have a problem on this machine or is the 3220 really better?

Do u have the CLC5151 Printing Guide/ http://software.canon-europe.com/sof...061.asp?model=
? How is this printer set up ?? H1 or the ColorPASS-GX100 ??
If u have a Fiery installed, look into purchasing a densitometer / calibrate every two days .
or use or Pick Up a KODAK GREYSCALE - FE1-4797-000
also in the Quality Tab of the PCL driver select correct Objective> as in :

Text/Table >Used for most general business documents containing both text and data represented in chart or table form.

Graphics > For printing documents that are entirely comprised of illustrations or graphic images.

Photo image > For printing documents that are entirely photographic images (halftones).

Toner Saver >Used for printing draft documents or other files which do not require high output quality. The Toner Saver setting uses about half the toner consumed for normal quality print jobs, allowing users to save on supplies when printing low priority or draft document sets.

Drawings >Used when the original file contains fine and/or colored lines, such as engineering drawings or architectural renderings. The high resolution setting for this print mode assures users high quality output and crisp lines, even when printing color files converted to grayscale.

[D_L_P]

I should have elaborated on what I meant for cleaning the ITB belt. I take the belt off and wipe off and dust on the inside of the belt and leave the outside alone. Then clean the drive roller with water/alcohol. Then wipe off any dust/toner off the assembly and gears with a dry towel. Keeping that ITB belt drive roller clean is very important for the 5180's and 3220's. I try and do it every call if I have the time.

If that is mostly what they run there is an adjustment for the cyan toner supply in service mode-> Copier-> Adjust-> Dens-> T-SPLY-C. It can be set from -3 to +5, I wouldn't set it higher than 2. You don't want to cause overtoning on other jobs.

And Tekcat had a good call, don't expect 80k out of the cyan drum if that's most of what they copy.
And Screwtape had a good suggestion, use the kodak strip to calibrate the fiery and calibrate often. 1 per week is what I suggest to my customers.

[srv]

Having any digital copier in a print environment is a nightmare.They will always stretch the m/c beyond it's limits to get the business irregardless of the damage they are causing to the m/c,and when you go in to service it(which can be everyday when they are busy)they whinge and moan about it breaking down.Digital m/c's can't sustain quality when they are being run all day and night on srA3 with full coverage but unfortunately in most cases,they are being sold for that purpose.God help us poor unfortunate fixers.