Is "First page out" spec on laser printers a fraud?

[aab1]

My Canon MF8350Cdn has a "first page out" spec of 16 seconds. But whenever I ask for a print or copy after not using it for a while, it's well over 2 minutes before the first page is out.

So what's this "16 seconds first page out" spec? It seems like it's more like "16 seconds after a 2 minute warmup time".

Isn't it fraudulent to say 16 seconds for the first page and not mention that's after a 2 minute warmup time? My inkjet has time to print well over 50 pages before the laser one even starts!

Thanks for explaining how this "first page out" time is calculated because it's certainly not 16 seconds.

[KenB]

No offense, but I really recommend that you take these types of questions to Canon, and see how they respond.

If you really hate this machine that much, either take it back (if you can), and if you can't, just call it a day and learn from your experience.

All of us on this site try to be helpful wherever we can, but you're playing an entirely different game here.

[aab1]

I don't really mind the 2 minute warmup, I'm just curious why they say 16 seconds when it's over 2 minutes.

And although the ridiculous 99 print limit pisses me off as I see no valid reason for this limitation, I really like the machine, but that limitation is so beyond absurd that it just boggles my mind.

I already have 22 000 prints on it after having it for only about 2 weeks. I hope Canon removes the 99 page limit in the next driver update, otherwise I'll simply send multiple 99 page print jobs to get my jobs done.

No offense, but I really recommend that you take these types of questions to Canon, and see how they respond.

If you really hate this machine that much, either take it back (if you can), and if you can't, just call it a day and learn from your experience.

All of us on this site try to be helpful wherever we can, but you're playing an entirely different game here.

[KenB]

I can guarantee you that they won't change it.

(I've worked with Canon products for over 31 years now, trust me on this one.)

[aodtech]

I heard that Canon is going to change that in their next update. They discovered that they are making all their money on the MF series color machines and not the awesome Advance models. Your voice has finally been heard. And as far as the "First page out" specs, the 16 seconds is for a standard business document. The gay nude male pictures that you are printing out probably have more detail and would take around 2 minutes to print. Hope all of your questions have been answered.

[aab1]

I can guarantee you that they won't change it.

(I've worked with Canon products for over 31 years now, trust me on this one.)

You're talking about removing the 99 copy limit?

Even if I threaten to return if for a refund if they don't?

You'd think that with the $700 cartridges this machine takes they would take the 15 minutes it takes to remove that limitation from the driver to keep me buying those $700 cartridges (at least that's what they should think, but I'll never buy genuine canon cartridges for it).

Plus they WILL loose me as a customer for life if they don't remove that limit, this will have been my first and last canon copier, so they are loosing thousands of dollars by not releasing a driver update.

I noticed they never released any driver or firmware update even though others also requested it for other reasons.

As I said HP has an identical printer to this one, and they have had several driver AND firmware updates already to answer their customers concerns. That's the kind of company I want to deal with.

[KenB]

"I already have 22 000 prints on it after having it for only about 2 weeks"

I looked up the monthly maximum duty cycle, It's 44,000.

At the rate you're going, this poor machine will be in the dumpster before you know it, and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

Dude, you REALLY need a bigger machine!

BTW... Don't even think about taking it back with this many prints on it unless you like getting laughed at. (And not in a good way,either!)

[aab1]

lol [hoping canon is not reading this] I will keep it even if they don't remove the 99 page limit, I'll just send my print jobs in batches of 99 pages. I will still tell canon I will return it if they don't remove the limit just to give them a bit of pressure into doing it.

By the way I'm doing an unusually large print job on it now, once this job is done it's usage will fall considerably.

Also as I said I got this small machine as an introduction to laser printing so I can see if I can still make money with it with the higher cost per page. If after 6 months or so things keep going well I will buy a much bigger machine. This canon is already more than half paid for with the prints I did on it so far.

BTW what I do with this laser and my inkjet is run a low cost printing/copying service (for up to 10 times cheaper per color page than large copy centers), and now offer both inkjet and laser prints (for those that want to pay at least double the cost per page for laser prints). I've been doing this for about 5 years, using only an inkjet until 2 weeks ago, it's not my main income source but makes me a bit of extra cash and I have many repeat customers since several years.

"I already have 22 000 prints on it after having it for only about 2 weeks"

I looked up the monthly maximum duty cycle, It's 44,000.

At the rate you're going, this poor machine will be in the dumpster before you know it, and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

Dude, you REALLY need a bigger machine!

BTW... Don't even think about taking it back with this many prints on it unless you like getting laughed at. (And not in a good way,either!)

[aodtech]

Plus they WILL loose me as a customer for life if they don't remove that limit, this will have been my first and last canon copier, so they are loosing thousands of dollars by not releasing a driver update.

Loose you? I knew you were a tightass, but didn't think it was that bad. And FYI, Canon makes over $35 billion a year, so your stinky "thousands of dollars" mean nothing to them. You said you buy re manufactured cartridges and try to refill them with waste toner. So how are you contributing to that figure? At your rate, I hope your business doesn't rely on its copies/prints otherwise you'll be cleaning up undigested seaweed stains on toilets at Canon HQ in Japan.

[KenB]

You're joking, right?

We have customers who have several MILLION dollars worth of gear, from several vendors, and can't get legitimate updates that would make sense, at least not without paying big bucks for customization.

I really don't think that they are too terribly concerned about one $800 machine, and the possible future business you may give them. I suppose that if they had a ton of the same complaint that they may change it, but I wouldn't count on it. Keep in mind that would cost them far more than $800 and any future business from one customer to make what seems to be a tiny driver modification.

It's entirely possible that this would require new firmware as well, if not new hardware. See how quickly this gets complicated?

If you love HP that much, then stick with them - they make a good product - I have a LaserJet 6P at home.

[aab1]

Well if that's what they think of their customers they don't deserve to keep me.

Loose you? I knew you were a tightass, but didn't think it was that bad. And FYI, Canon makes over $35 billion a year, so your stinky "thousands of dollars" mean nothing to them. You said you buy re manufactured cartridges and try to refill them with waste toner. So how are you contributing to that figure? At your rate, I hope your business doesn't rely on its copies/prints otherwise you'll be cleaning up undigested seaweed stains on toilets at Canon HQ in Japan.

[KenB]

Ever notice that the smallest customers give the most grief?

I'm done.

This passed ridiculous two hours ago.

Good night!

[aab1]

Look, I had like 10 HPs over the past years and HP have always been great, even exchanging a $600 copier twice at no cost and they paid to have UPS pickup the old one and give me a brand new one. They always release driver/firmware updates fairly regularly to address their customers concerns.

I was just expecting the same quality service from Canon.

By the way it's obvious the 99 page limit is nothing more than a value in the driver software, all they need to do is open the source code of the driver, and replace "99" with "9999" (in fact I even tried sending 999 999 prints to my HP inkjet and it took it without problems, I canceled it shortly after it started of course), and recompile and put it online.

The printer has no problem printing a 1000 page document at once, but won't let you print the same page more than 99 times, so it's not the hardware that's incapable of doing more than 99 prints, it's nothing more than a numerical value in the driver software that sets the limit. Again the HP version of this copier which is identical in every way (other than a different scanner) doesn't have any 99 copy print limit.

My next printer definitely will be an HP, I've gotten a non-HP printer twice in my life (and about 10 HPs), a POS epson that failed after 50 pages/2 weeks, and this canon which is nowhere near the worthless junk that epsons are but still this software limit is ridiculous. I've only be dissapointed with one HP inkjet that failed after about 20 000 prints but it still more than paid for itself in that time.

Perhaps for the really big machines canon is better, but it seems like for $1000-5000 machines HP is far ahead in features, user friendliness and support.

You're joking, right?

We have customers who have several MILLION dollars worth of gear, from several vendors, and can't get legitimate updates that would make sense, at least not without paying big bucks for customization.

I really don't think that they are too terribly concerned about one $800 machine, and the possible future business you may give them. I suppose that if they had a ton of the same complaint that they may change it, but I wouldn't count on it. Keep in mind that is would cost them far more than $800 and any future business from one customer to make what seems to be a tiny driver modification.

It's entirely possible that this would require new firmware as well, if not new hardware. See how quickly this gets complicated?

If you love HP that much, then stick with them - they make a good product - I have a LaserJet 6P at home.

[peterepeat]

OK,
......so let me get this straight....
......you've had 10 HP's in the last 5 years....
......if my 2nd grade math hasn't failed me, that's...
......hmmm let's see...
.....1 new printer every 6 months?
Sounds quite cost effective!
YUP! HP is definitely the way to go. See them all the time in print shops.
You're EXACTLY the type of customer HP WANTS to attract!!!

With all due respect, you come on this forum & do nothing but bitch & moan about your machine. You seem to "know everything" about imaging equipment yet ask all kinds of random & meaningless questions.
What do you hope to accomplish here?

[aab1]

Who ever said it was in 5 years? That was over a 20+ year period, there were also times I've had 2 at the same time (one for photo printing and a business model for high volume printing).

None of those 10 HPs ever broke except one after 20 000 prints, they all still work like new if ever I wanted to use a 20 year old printer, I replaced them because I always want the latest and greatest.

And my last HP is still working great after 3 years and 250 000 prints, I haven't replaced it mostly because inkjets under $1000 seem to have topped off at 35 pages/minute, although $25 000 inkjets run at 150 pages/minute but are out of my price range.

And if you think I'm that stupid for using an HP business inkjet for my printing service, how is it that my prices per color page are TEN TIMES CHEAPER than major copy centers? Not a single copy center using laser printers can get anywhere near as low prices per page as I do because laser printers cost infinitely more in toner and replacement parts. $200 of ink in my HP makes over 50 000 prints and the only parts to replace are 2 printheads every 60 000 prints for under $50 each. That's 0.5 cents a color page, no laser printer in the world can print for this cheap.

And even if your ridiculous assumption that I replaced them every 6 months was true, that would still end up way cheaper than any laser printer because business inkjets cost 0.4 cents per color page (the business models that is, not the home models with half a teaspoon of ink per color).

OK,
......so let me get this straight....
......you've had 10 HP's in the last 5 years....
......if my 2nd grade math hasn't failed me, that's...
......hmmm let's see...
.....1 new printer every 6 months?
Sounds quite cost effective!
YUP! HP is definitely the way to go. See them all the time in print shops.
You're EXACTLY the type of customer HP WANTS to attract!!!

With all due respect, you come on this forum & do nothing but bitch & moan about your machine. You seem to "know everything" about imaging equipment yet ask all kinds of random & meaningless questions.
What do you hope to accomplish here?