IR2800 HDD problems

[Akitu]

Hi guys! Yet another problem with a Canon I've never seen before that has somehow fallen into my service area.

The HDD is cooked in this one, you can hear it struggling to spin up. I had a HDD from a 3570 delivered to me from another location in my company, I'm now attempting to format the HDD and reload the IR2800 system software onto the new drive, but I'm getting timeout errors. I'm trying this on both the original 6gb drive from the 2800 and the 20gb drive from the 3570

Error 145 occurs when I try to connect with USB-Parallel BiCentronics cable.

Error 147 occurs when I try to connect via network cable.

Anyone able to tell me what these SST errors are and why I can't do any writing to either HDD?

I've done some searching and found an old post where Teckat had given a link to SSTs not being able to identify an HDD, but it doesn't seem to be applicable to my case.

My SST is version 4.72E, attempting to load System Software version 4501.

All help is much appreciated!

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Hi guys! Yet another problem with a Canon I've never seen before that has somehow fallen into my service area.

The HDD is cooked in this one, you can hear it struggling to spin up. I had a HDD from a 3570 delivered to me from another location in my company, I'm now attempting to format the HDD and reload the IR2800 system software onto the new drive, but I'm getting timeout errors. I'm trying this on both the original 6gb drive from the 2800 and the 20gb drive from the 3570

Error 145 occurs when I try to connect with USB-Parallel BiCentronics cable.

Error 147 occurs when I try to connect via network cable.

Anyone able to tell me what these SST errors are and why I can't do any writing to either HDD?

I've done some searching and found an old post where Teckat had given a link to SSTs not being able to identify an HDD, but it doesn't seem to be applicable to my case.

My SST is version 4.72E, attempting to load System Software version 4501.

All help is much appreciated!

Dear Akitu, If I understand your post well, you are trying to use an HDD meant for the iR3570 to use in an iR2800 machine? If that be the case then you are doing it the wrong way! The HDDs meant for iR3570 DO NOT work in iR2800s. You might have noticed that, the descriptor file containing the HDD list, in the HDformat file of the iR3570 is encrypted. While the one for the iR2800 machine has the list of the recommended standard HDDs which can be used. Therefore the two hdds are not 'swappable'. You will need to get the correct hdd meant for the iR2800 group inorder for you to format and upgrade the system software. [choose from the list provided]. A minimum of 10GB is recommended, but any value 20GB and above is preferable.

If I may ask, did the machine initially display any error code like E602-0001 etc? if so you should also check the associated circuitry e.g cabling for open or short, proper contact etc, since the hard disk doesn't work in isolation.

The SST error 145 means 'Time out', and is caused by 'communication failure'; Remedy: verify the connection between the pc and target and execute again.
Error 147...'connection error; cause...'Failed to connect to the TCP/IP socket. Remarks: only for TCP\IP connection. In this case You should use a cross-over cable to connect the two devices; assign them different IP Addresses but of the same segment e.g copier 192.168.1.21; Laptop 192.168.1.22,...All same subnet mask 255.255.255.0 .
The bottom line is: You can NOT write a iR2200\2800 Firmware on iR3570 hard disks, neither can you do the formatting. Use the right hard disk meant for iR2800 series and avoid headache.

[Akitu]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Dear Akitu, If I understand your post well, you are trying to use an HDD meant for the iR3570 to use in an iR2800 machine? If that be the case then you are doing it the wrong way! The HDDs meant for iR3570 DO NOT work in iR2800s. You might have noticed that, the descriptor file containing the HDD list, in the HDformat file of the iR3570 is encrypted. While the one for the iR2800 machine has the list of the recommended standard HDDs which can be used. Therefore the two hdds are not 'swappable'. You will need to get the correct hdd meant for the iR2800 group inorder for you to format and upgrade the system software. [choose from the list provided]. A minimum of 10GB is recommended, but any value 20GB and above is preferable.

If I may ask, did the machine initially display any error code like E602-0001 etc? if so you should also check the associated circuitry e.g cabling for open or short, proper contact etc, since the hard disk doesn't work in isolation.

The SST error 145 means 'Time out', and is caused by 'communication failure'; Remedy: verify the connection between the pc and target and execute again.
Error 147...'connection error; cause...'Failed to connect to the TCP/IP socket. Remarks: only for TCP\IP connection. In this case You should use a cross-over cable to connect the two devices; assign them different IP Addresses but of the same segment e.g copier 192.168.1.21; Laptop 192.168.1.22,...All same subnet mask 255.255.255.0 .
The bottom line is: You can NOT write a iR2200\2800 Firmware on iR3570 hard disks, neither can you do the formatting. Use the right hard disk meant for iR2800 series and avoid headache.

Thanks for the response Dag, allow me to answer your questions.

I was trying to do the formatting procedure on both HDD, the original for the 2800 and the new one for the 3570.

The HDD from the 2800 is the Toshiba MK6014MAP which is in the v.16 HDD Format file. This specific drive is 6GB model. The machine was remanufactured and I have not seen it prior to last week.

The initial codes I was receiving were E602-003 and E602-001.

While trying to connect to the copier by network cable for SST formatting, I was using the copier address of 192.168.1.109 and my own laptop's address was set to 192.168.1.100.

I'll stop trying to do anything with the 3570 drive, as that is apparently a bust. My current Toshiba drive is having difficulty running, I would suspect I need to change it out altogether.

*Edit* ordered new MK6014MAP Toshiba HDD with part code from the manual.

[Akitu]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Update: New HDD showed up. Fujitsu model MHW2040AT 40GB. This particular model has a stupid cover on it that blocked the top tab of the IDE connector from fitting, cut the top off the IDE connector so I could try it.

Still getting timeout error 145/147 from SST, I have no idea why.

*Edit* apparently I need a special proprietary USB-Parallel cable only Canon sells... Why can't I just throw in any HDD and have it work? Why does Canon make technicians jump through hoops of fire to get a damn HDD to work in their POS machines?

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Update: New HDD showed up. Fujitsu model MHW2040AT 40GB. This particular model has a stupid cover on it that blocked the top tab of the IDE connector from fitting, cut the top off the IDE connector so I could try it.

Still getting timeout error 145/147 from SST, I have no idea why.

*Edit* apparently I need a special proprietary USB-Parallel cable only Canon sells... Why can't I just throw in any HDD and have it work? Why does Canon make technicians jump through hoops of fire to get a damn HDD to work in their POS machines?

I think your problem could still be using the wrong HDD in the machine. I have checked the v0016 HD Format file and can't find that 'New HDD'...Fujistu model MHW2040AT listed among the canon recommended\standard HDDs. That means you can't edit and modify it in the descriptor file. Order for one which is listed in the HD Format file, (56 listed), edit and modify or get that Toshiba you had ordered. This should solve the problem.
-Secondly, the Error code E602-0001...Actually indicates a HD MOUNT error was detected when the HD was starting up. Therefore as I said earlier, you need to check for any faulty connection between the HDD and the main controller PCB. It could also be poor Main controller PCB, in which case you will have to replace the Main Controller PCB.
To prove that the original HDD is really bad, you could remove it from the machine and first try to mount it in a working PC or Laptop, if the computer mounts it successfully it could mean the Hard Disk could still work.
- Try to replace that Ribbon cable connecting the HDD to the Main Controller PCB. I had a similar machine display SST Error codes E145, E147 because of Faulty ribbon cable rather than the HDD itself.
-As for the Canon 'Nethawk cable', this should not be an impediment to your doing the machine's upgrade. Get one of those old laptops with parallel port interface, like Dell Latitude D600, use it with IEEE standard Bi-centronic cable. ALTERNATIVELY, use the customer's desktop PC having a parallel interface connection.
Canon techs are always 'jumping through hoop of fire', as you questioned, Yes, it is passing through this 'Baptism of Fire' which tests our 'mettle', and set us a class apart from other techs.
Good Luck brother, we are ready to offer more help till you solve that problem.

[Canon.Tech]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Yes this is correct, you can not load the firmware via LAN on this model the USB - Parallel cables are a bit unreliable. The best way is to use an older laptop that has a parallel port, I still use an old laptop for this reason, no real need to a top end laptop for copiers! The working drive from the 2800 will work in your 2200.

[vigour]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

It is possible to edit the ift file and add a non-standard drive on the 2800.
I haven't done it in years, and i'm not prepared to write about it today, or search for it.
But I did see a good written procedure on the forum.
So a search should help you with that,

[Akitu]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

I think your problem could still be using the wrong HDD in the machine. I have checked the v0016 HD Format file and can't find that 'New HDD'...Fujistu model MHW2040AT listed among the canon recommended\standard HDDs. That means you can't edit and modify it in the descriptor file. Order for one which is listed in the HD Format file, (56 listed), edit and modify or get that Toshiba you had ordered. This should solve the problem.
-Secondly, the Error code E602-0001...Actually indicates a HD MOUNT error was detected when the HD was starting up. Therefore as I said earlier, you need to check for any faulty connection between the HDD and the main controller PCB. It could also be poor Main controller PCB, in which case you will have to replace the Main Controller PCB.
To prove that the original HDD is really bad, you could remove it from the machine and first try to mount it in a working PC or Laptop, if the computer mounts it successfully it could mean the Hard Disk could still work.
- Try to replace that Ribbon cable connecting the HDD to the Main Controller PCB. I had a similar machine display SST Error codes E145, E147 because of Faulty ribbon cable rather than the HDD itself.
-As for the Canon 'Nethawk cable', this should not be an impediment to your doing the machine's upgrade. Get one of those old laptops with parallel port interface, like Dell Latitude D600, use it with IEEE standard Bi-centronic cable. ALTERNATIVELY, use the customer's desktop PC having a parallel interface connection.
Canon techs are always 'jumping through hoop of fire', as you questioned, Yes, it is passing through this 'Baptism of Fire' which tests our 'mettle', and set us a class apart from other techs.
Good Luck brother, we are ready to offer more help till you solve that problem.

My HDD came from Memory Experts with the Canon part number from the manual. I'll tell my parts dept. to order from Canon... My original error was E602-003. The 602-001 did not present itself until my former new HDD was inserted (from the 3570).

It mounts successfully as 4 partitioned drives, though the sounds it is making do nothing to remove doubt in my mind as to the health of this drive. The machine is at my shop now, my netbook does not have a parallel port, and I'll have to get a standard IEEE Bi-Centronics cable to try that... This is proving to be much more hassle than it was worth. I disagree about the "baptism of fire" you mentioned... If I have to go out and purchase an archaic laptop for the sole purpose of doing a HDD replacement for a single Canon machine, that's just poor design in my opinion. Any tech should be able to use any HDD and have the machine partition it as necessary, without the requirements of the Canon SST. It makes it much more difficult for someone who doesn't have Canon as the absolute be-all-end-all lineup of machines to do necessary work.

Thanks again Dag.

Yes this is correct, you can not load the firmware via LAN on this model the USB - Parallel cables are a bit unreliable. The best way is to use an older laptop that has a parallel port, I still use an old laptop for this reason, no real need to a top end laptop for copiers! The working drive from the 2800 will work in your 2200.

Have no old laptop here. Just the Windows 7 Acer PCs that were shipped up to me over a year ago. Also - my machine is a 2800, but thanks for the pointer.

It is possible to edit the ift file and add a non-standard drive on the 2800.
I haven't done it in years, and i'm not prepared to write about it today, or search for it.
But I did see a good written procedure on the forum.
So a search should help you with that,

I'll have to see if I can find that post...

[mjarbar]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

I think this is the file on HDD adaptation you need:

hdd serv tool details..pdf

It should give details on how to edit the FORMAT file to accept any HDD, however regardless of the size of the HDD a certain amount may only be usable as this is governed by the SST.

[Akitu]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

I think this is the file on HDD adaptation you need:

[ATTACH]20681[/ATTACH]

It should give details on how to edit the FORMAT file to accept any HDD, however regardless of the size of the HDD a certain amount may only be usable as this is governed by the SST.

Thanks Mjarbar! That's definitely helpful. I have the HDD on order from Canon now as opposed to Memory Experts, will see what they deliver... Also have a Bi-Centronics to parallel cable and a PCI-e parallel port on the way to install into my desktop pc. Hopefully this will bypass any of the issues I've been having thus far...

[vigour]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Oops.
The drive you will get from Canon will be SATA, because they don't source IDE anymore.
This will require an adaptor, which you will have to order.

Just go buy a 10- 80 gig laptop drive somewhere, and edit file.
That model originally hay 3 or 4 gig drives.
The first time I tried a 80 gig drive, the machine would work , but something would not load.
I think it was fax software, but that was too long ago to remember.

[DAG COPIERS & COMPUTERS]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

It is possible to edit the ift file and add a non-standard drive on the 2800.
I haven't done it in years, and i'm not prepared to write about it today, or search for it.
But I did see a good written procedure on the forum.
So a search should help you with that,

Thank you vigour for the correction. My post should have been reading something like this: ''You need to locate an entry in the list of valid HDDs that is SIMILAR to the one you need to configure to support your drive. The more similar the better. For example,if you need to configure the drive Toshiba MK8025GAS , and you locate an entry Toshiba MK8023 GAS, this would be the 'BEST candidate'...file to edit, since it is very similar to the one you have.''

Dear Atiku, as for the 'Baptism of fire', take it easy, I just meant it to 'spice-up' the thread. As you can see there's now more help coming for you along the way. Take courage you will eventually get the machine fixed. It will also be a good learning experience for you, on upgrading canon firmwares. Next time you encounter a similar issue it will just be a sail though. Good Luck!

[Akitu]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Thank you vigour for the correction. My post should have been reading something like this: ''You need to locate an entry in the list of valid HDDs that is SIMILAR to the one you need to configure to support your drive. The more similar the better. For example,if you need to configure the drive Toshiba MK8025GAS , and you locate an entry Toshiba MK8023 GAS, this would be the 'BEST candidate'...file to edit, since it is very similar to the one you have.''

Dear Atiku, as for the 'Baptism of fire', take it easy, I just meant it to 'spice-up' the thread. As you can see there's now more help coming for you along the way. Take courage you will eventually get the machine fixed. It will also be a good learning experience for you, on upgrading canon firmwares. Next time you encounter a similar issue it will just be a sail though. Good Luck!

I just returned from a long out of town trip. Will be attempting to edit files as soon as I get my cable.

An adapter now? Really? Just one more thing after another... Why can't this just be a smooth process? Canon is making this needlessly difficult.

I've upgraded firmware on a 2020i I posted about previously, that was MUCH more simple than this HDD process Dag. The help from everyone is much appreciated as well. Next time I have a HDD fail I'll have half the stuff that Canon seems to require to replace them.

Where would I find a part number for that adapter, Vigour?

Also - I have a HDD on order from a partner company that already has the f/w loaded onto it. Their main lines are Canon so they're better equipped for these things than I am. It'll probably get here faster than all the cables and adapters and new drive anyways, and be much less effort.

[Klydon]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Part of the thing to remember is the age of this machine. It was one of the last to use the proprietary parallel cables you had to order from Canon. And by the way, the old cables don't work with anything beyond XP. It is a different cable if you are using say Win 7. The machines after this one switched to the network cable for purposes of doing downloads, etc.

The machines originally had 6 gig drives on them. I have seen a lot have anywhere from 20-40 gig drives I think. These machines absolutely ate hard drives left and right. You could often try to reformat, etc and the machine might work for awhile, but you can look through the forum and see thread after thread on these machines and code 602's. Replacing hard drives on these is just someting that has to be done.

[mjarbar]

Re: IR2800 HDD problems

Part of the thing to remember is the age of this machine. It was one of the last to use the proprietary parallel cables you had to order from Canon. And by the way, the old cables don't work with anything beyond XP. It is a different cable if you are using say Win 7. The machines after this one switched to the network cable for purposes of doing downloads, etc.

The machines originally had 6 gig drives on them. I have seen a lot have anywhere from 20-40 gig drives I think. These machines absolutely ate hard drives left and right. You could often try to reformat, etc and the machine might work for awhile, but you can look through the forum and see thread after thread on these machines and code 602's. Replacing hard drives on these is just someting that has to be done.

If it was just a corrupted file reformatting as you say would work for a while but eventually the problem would come back usually with the machine being very slow to respond to input, if the drive was screaming like a banshee then you had no choice but to replace.

It makes you realise how 'easy' we have it now with downloads via network or USB stick.!