Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

[Oystercopy]

The machine has been recording jams intermittently since (at least) we installed it. Customer reports that the paper gets JUST out of the feed tray and stops, never even getting to the next set of vertical rollers when it jams... We have replaced all three PF rollers and the DFP clutch to no avail. Thanks in advance!
OC

[richmods]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

The machine has been recording jams intermittently since (at least) we installed it. Customer reports that the paper gets JUST out of the feed tray and stops, never even getting to the next set of vertical rollers when it jams... We have replaced all three PF rollers and the DFP clutch to no avail. Thanks in advance!
OC

Does it jam when the cassette is full? I had this issue on the same machine with PC-408. What I found is that it would only jam when the tray was close to empty (around 300 pieces left in the tray). After going through everything you just went through I found that the lift plate would tilt just enough to prevent paper passing.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

Misfeeds (1501) from tray #3 (PC-408) only, with 350 sheets or less in the right side of the tray, right in the bite of the feed/separation rollers. Standard letter sized paper (279mm) fits a little too snuggly front to rear, causing the lift plate to tip to the right at the top of it's lift. To replicate the problem remove tray front face and lift motor. Manually lift the tray to observe tipping. Theory: paper stalls when the left side of the stack presses against the top of the feed unit. Loosen the four right side screws to spread the front and rear frames/guides an additional 1.25mm (the remaining screw hole clearance). Snug screws.

Essentially, the letter paper was mis-cut at 280.25mm. All 10 pallets of it. =^..^=

[Copier Addict]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

The machine has been recording jams intermittently since (at least) we installed it. Customer reports that the paper gets JUST out of the feed tray and stops, never even getting to the next set of vertical rollers when it jams... We have replaced all three PF rollers and the DFP clutch to no avail. Thanks in advance!
OC

Did you remove and clean the one-way bearings on the pick-up and feed rollers? Also scuff up the shaft where the bearing runs with some emery cloth,

[Blizzoo]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

Also check back of the tray, usually they crack in the position were the tray meets the "Lever" that low-down pick-up roller on paper when tray is closed. Hope to understand what i'm saying .
You could also put son spacers between tray an lever for better pressure.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

Did you remove and clean the one-way bearings on the pick-up and feed rollers? Also scuff up the shaft where the bearing runs with some emery cloth,

On principle I disagree with this scuffing of metal shafts. One way bearings require the full size smooth shaft, be it 6mm, 8mm or 10mm. "Scuffing" the shaft only makes the shaft smaller, making the one-way bearing work more poorly. If you want to do something useful, clean the one-way bearing and shaft with alcohol. Oil the one-way bearing with Triflow or some other light oil. If the shaft is rough, worn down in diameter, or the plating chipped, replace it. "Scuffing" the shaft simply cannot make the shaft larger in diameter. Friction simply is not a factor in the functioning of one-way bearings. =^..^=

[allan]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

If you get that mirror chrome finish on the shaft. Even a cleaned shaft with a new bearing slips.
I use a needle file to make three very neat super shallow flat spots around the shaft.
The only other way is to replace the shaft.

[Copier Addict]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

On principle I disagree with this scuffing of metal shafts. One way bearings require the full size smooth shaft, be it 6mm, 8mm or 10mm. "Scuffing" the shaft only makes the shaft smaller, making the one-way bearing work more poorly. If you want to do something useful, clean the one-way bearing and shaft with alcohol. Oil the one-way bearing with Triflow or some other light oil. If the shaft is rough, worn down in diameter, or the plating chipped, replace it. "Scuffing" the shaft simply cannot make the shaft larger in diameter. Friction simply is not a factor in the functioning of one-way bearings. =^..^=

I have been doing this for a few years and have never had to replace a shaft that I have scuffed with emery cloth. I have, however, seen shafts that were polished smooth and the bearing slipping and causing jams. Also, I clean the one-way bearing with alcohol but I never use any lubricant on them.
PS. Friction is the reason these bearings work.

[wragsdale]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

PS. Friction is the reason these bearings work.

This is wrong. The rollers are pressed against the inner and outer races. It's a pressing force and has little to do with friction.

edit: Technically speaking, it's a wedging action that is ultimately the result of friction but I don't believe scoring the shaft will help where a rolling friction is involved.

[Copier Addict]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

This is wrong. The rollers are pressed against the inner and outer races. It's a pressing force and has little to do with friction.

Yes, the rollers get pressed against the shaft and friction keeps it from turning.

[wragsdale]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

Yes, the rollers get pressed against the shaft and friction keeps it from turning.

Sorry, I corrected myself!

I think both arguments (that is, scoring vs not) have merit.

[gerryproulx]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

change the sensor coming out of the tray

[Oystercopy]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

Thanks for all the replies guys... I did not need to scuff the one way shafts because they were not worn. They hardly ever wear badly on the Konica Minoltas, but they wear badly on the Toshibas I service, big time. I have to disagree with those who don't believe scuffing the shafts work. I have been doing that for over 30 years, and yes, it works. You're not actually taking off any significant amount of metal when scuffing (I use scotch brite pads) but what you're hoping to achieve is to remove the VARNISHING that happens when the cheaper one ways leave behind that "lacquered, burned" residue on the shaft. What you're actually doing is giving the one way the friction to grip the shaft better, when its bearings lock, which is part of the reason they slip in the first place. In the very old days (Panasonic) not replacing the one ways was asking for trouble. Today's one ways are a little better, and unless the machine is high mileage and they look old, I don't replace them any more. In the old days we used to wash out the bearings with alcohol and then re-pack them with silicone grease. The idea was that if there WAS any wear/slippage in the bearings, the grease would fill up the gaps and allow the needles to grip the shafts better when they were turned in the proper direction. I noticed somebody mentioned Tri-Flow.. oh my gosh, that's the WORST excuse for lubricant ever invented. It would harden, stick and otherwise cause havoc. Everything but what the name implied it should do.... FLOW! If I use oil at all these days it is a light oil called Kroil. It's intended for breaking stuck joints (rust, etc) but I find it leaves a nice slippery coating and never hardens/thickens. It even stands up well to heat/pressure.

All the suggestions were excellent about the LCC fix.. thanks again. I'm going to go look closer at the lift plate and see what's going on. I didn't think to ask if the problem happened when empty or full, but will look at that as well.

You guys are awesome but I still miss Smarka!

[Bob Wescott]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

Does it jam when the cassette is full? I had this issue on the same machine with PC-408. What I found is that it would only jam when the tray was close to empty (around 300 pieces left in the tray). After going through everything you just went through I found that the lift plate would tilt just enough to prevent paper passing.

We had the same problem, replaced everything that moves, or thought we had. Lost the account because of it. Your advice is very helpful.

[Bob Wescott]

Re: Bizhub C-360, 15-01 jams from the LCC (PC-408)...

Thanks for all the replies guys... I did not need to scuff the one way shafts because they were not worn. They hardly ever wear badly on the Konica Minoltas, but they wear badly on the Toshibas I service, big time. I have to disagree with those who don't believe scuffing the shafts work. I have been doing that for over 30 years, and yes, it works. You're not actually taking off any significant amount of metal when scuffing (I use scotch brite pads) but what you're hoping to achieve is to remove the VARNISHING that happens when the cheaper one ways leave behind that "lacquered, burned" residue on the shaft. What you're actually doing is giving the one way the friction to grip the shaft better, when its bearings lock, which is part of the reason they slip in the first place. In the very old days (Panasonic) not replacing the one ways was asking for trouble. Today's one ways are a little better, and unless the machine is high mileage and they look old, I don't replace them any more. In the old days we used to wash out the bearings with alcohol and then re-pack them with silicone grease. The idea was that if there WAS any wear/slippage in the bearings, the grease would fill up the gaps and allow the needles to grip the shafts better when they were turned in the proper direction. I noticed somebody mentioned Tri-Flow.. oh my gosh, that's the WORST excuse for lubricant ever invented. It would harden, stick and otherwise cause havoc. Everything but what the name implied it should do.... FLOW! If I use oil at all these days it is a light oil called Kroil. It's intended for breaking stuck joints (rust, etc) but I find it leaves a nice slippery coating and never hardens/thickens. It even stands up well to heat/pressure.

All the suggestions were excellent about the LCC fix.. thanks again. I'm going to go look closer at the lift plate and see what's going on. I didn't think to ask if the problem happened when empty or full, but will look at that as well.

You guys are awesome but I still miss Smarka!

Just a note: best lube for metal parts seems to be gun oil, Hoppe's or the like.