[Misc] KM C224 Alignment issue

[admiral]

I'm encountering an improper alignment when I'm printing business cards on bypass thick paper(300g). I use Xerox Color Copy A4 paper.
1. I've removed all the values in Expert alignment for all the paper types. Also made the calibration prints and they correspond with the tolerances of ~0.5mm
2. I'm printing the design on bypass - plain paper and the horizontal alignment is almost perfect(~0.5mm). In printer settings I selected binding position as Top Binding or Left Binding(the same results).
3. Now I'm printing on bypass - Thick 4 paper but the alignment of the front print is aligned to the right with about 1.5mm - 2mm
So the issue I think it has to do with the different paper type and how is handled by the printer.
In the Expert alignment settings I don't have the option to add an offset for the Thick 4 paper as for the other paper types.
The vertical alignment is perfect on both paper types.

Any ideas on how to solve this kind of issues?

[Zesti]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Hi Admiral,
Sorry couldn't get your alignment thing. Can you pl post the prints with marks with feeding direction and side no. You are printing both sides duplex?
Your print is shifting.... check your tray centering..

[admiral]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Hi Admiral,
Sorry couldn't get your alignment thing. Can you pl post the prints with marks with feeding direction and side no. You are printing both sides duplex?
Your print is shifting.... check your tray centering..

The paper is placed into the side bypass tray as portrait(long side to the feeding roller). I also tried as landscape and makes no difference.
I'm trying to print both sides duplex but unfortunately the printer is unable to do that automatically on Thick 4 paper as it's too thick and is getting stuck into the printer. So I'm manually changing the sides of the paper and every time the paper is placed as it should into the bypass side tray with no room for paper shifting the results are the same.
As the paper is too thick to see through the printing marks misalignment so any photo will not show the fault I'm describing but the face of the page it has an offset of about 2mm to the right and the back side the same 2mm to the left margin.

Thank you for the reply.

[blackcat4866]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

I first saw this on an Okidata 9600 printer in which the enduser was running 300gsm glossy media for business cards. What I saw was late image registration and poor color registration on the trailing edge of the media.

If you watch the machine carefully, the color registration slip happens at exactly the same instant as when the leading edge of the paper meets the bite of the fuser rollers. On older machines I might attempt adjustments to the fuser pressure ... but the Okidata (and your bizhub) do not have adjustment for fixing pressure. What's happening is the media hesitates at the fuser rollers, bumping through, and shifting the image registration (and color registration simultaneously).

So you ask ... what's the solution? Use lighter media. How will I know when it's light enough? When the image registers properly.
I'd start with 270gsm.

Say what you like a machine specifications. If it doesn't work, it just doesn't work. =^..^=

[allan]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Also try image shift used from the print driver. Its quicker than diving into the machine adjustments.
Sorry bud you need a machine with a centering sensor, this machine is not made for this.

Try thick paper setting to get it to pull paper slower but you did all ready.
Line speed for C224 and C364 are the same...

[Synaux]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

I have always had weird results using the admin expert settings.

If you really want to calibrate the machine for close tolerances you almost must go into Service Mode.

This is not a mode for end users, but the only solid form of tweaking the machine reliably in my opinion.

Before that, try thinner paper as suggested. You could even run 20lb paper as thick4 and as plain paper to see if there is any variance.

[admiral]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

I've made a couple of tests as follows:
1. Printed on 250g paper in the same conditions as before, the results are the same.
2. I've positioned the Thick 4 paper into the bypass tray as landscape(short side at the feeding roller), printed front side as usually and the second side as inverted at 180(so I can maintain the same cards orientation) with Top side Bind and auto bind settings and the results are the same. And now I have the same ~2mm misalignment that appears on the short side of the paper(top side).
All this tries were made using the multiplication feature into print preview where I've added also the cutting marks.
I've also tried making an A4 page for front and back with the multiplication feature from Multiplication Docker in Corel and all the cards were grouped and center aligned. The results were the same.

My question is why the printer makes this alignment issue for the back side when the paper is first printed on one side and then manually reversed and put again into the bypass tray. It should not appear any difference as the printer knows only that it prints only one page at a time and only on one side of the paper.
If the issue had to do with the thickness of the paper the same the 2mm should also show on the first print(front side) and thus it should match with the back.

Thank you all for all the advice.

[Zesti]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Check you tray centering adjustments in service mode>machine>printer area> printer image Centre side 1 and side 2.

[Synaux]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Multiplication Docker in Corel

Not entirely sure I completely follow, but it sounds like you are in the wrong forum.
If you need help with Corel I am happy to help.

What version of Corel (Draw?) are you using?

Corel is a finicky turd at times with the multiplication feature(s). Try the business card duplication feature in the print menu and report back

[Synaux]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Check you tray centering adjustments in service mode>machine>printer area> printer image Centre side 1 and side 2.

[admiral]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Check you tray centering adjustments in service mode>machine>printer area> printer image Centre side 1 and side 2.

The 2mm are added to the leading edge of the second page no mater the paper layout and positioning chosen and also makes no difference if the business cards are duplicated outside Corel or inside Corel.
I've tried adding +-2mm into the service mode printer image center alternatively on first and second page but it made no difference. The issue is not with Corel X8 that I'm using business cards layout centered onto page and exported as PDF, then print the PDF which makes the same issues.

[allan]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Feed a page from thru the machine and compare the dimensions to an unprinted page.
Paper experience some shrinkage on the first side due to fusing driving any moisture out.
Never seen it to be more than about 1mm.

Try taking -2mm from the paper size on the second side.

[Synaux]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

The 2mm are added to the leading edge of the second page no mater the paper layout and positioning chosen and also makes no difference if the business cards are duplicated outside Corel or inside Corel.
I've tried adding +-2mm into the service mode printer image center alternatively on first and second page but it made no difference. The issue is not with Corel X8 that I'm using business cards layout centered onto page and exported as PDF, then print the PDF which makes the same issues.

That is impossible.
You must not be changing the correct setting.

[Zesti]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

That is impossible.
You must not be changing the correct setting.

You're right.... I asked for images of prints with marks of feeding direction..... Are you using standard paper sizes?????

[admiral]

Re: KM C224 Alignment issue

Thank you all for your advice and input.

Unfortunately I've given up on this matter as I've spent too much time and wasted more than 100 pages of A4 300gsm paper just printing the small adjustments from Expert adjustments and Service Mode. As I said printing on A4 80gsm works just fine with no extra adjustments, on the Thick 4 papers not working at all.
I've added in Service Mode +-2mm on all the image center side 1 or 2 fields and also on other of the Service menu I've found to be relevant to my issue(just to rule out any posibillity). For every settings field where I've added the 2mm and made a test print(in the same conditions as before) with no visible or measured differences(as if the values added into those fields are not taken into account even though the values remain set in the Service menu).

What I've done to fix the issue in some degree was to shift the entire design with about 2mm from Corel on the second page before sending it to the printer.