bizhub PRESS C8000

[Christian_W]

Hello together,
I would like to open a new thread to collect any information about C8000.
Who has practical knowledge about this system?
Whats your experience?

Best regards
Christian

[Stirton.M]

I've been trained on this hardware, and have thus far set up one machine in our demo room. Unfortunate that our sales team has yet to sell one, frustrating to say the least considering that other cities in Canada have sold several of them already. I've been actively trying to help convince the print shops that already have the C65xx series to have a look at the machine, providing technical differences to the C65xx along with a few sample prints. Reception has been mixed. The biggest issue being cost versus productivity. It was not an issue of the capabilities, but that of being able to print enough through the machine to justify the costs. One guy really wants it, but his monthly volume on the C6501 barely exceeds 20K/month, far far short of what would be practical on the C8000, let alone his current machine. There is some practical argument to using this machine in lieu of actual press machines for some types of work, but there is resistance in the industry to this end. Hell, even my own supervisor thinks it is marketing hype to call this a Press C8000. Personally, I know the capabilities of the machine and have seen the output, it could give a press a run for the money easily, given that any given good quality press is a huge investment initially, and of course, the cost of operation. Volume is the key to making money on a press machine and they are fully capable of delivering. The C8000 I think will have a hard time competing in that kind of volume, but it is a step towards making this possible. Press operators may view this as a threat to their job I think.

That said, the C8000 is superior to the C65xx series in many ways....8 lasers per colour, better colour control while on the fly, better paper handling capabilities such as air fed paper feed instead of friction feed, heavier paper weight handling which includes duplex at 300gsm. The inclusion of creating profiles for different paper types is phenomenal as well. What is particularly pleasing to see is that the machine is capable of producing high gloss output on plain or matte finished stocks. The inclusion of a post humidifier is also an added bonus, though useless on coated stocks. The main fuser unit shifts slightly back and forth to reduce pattern wear from the paper, coupled with a polishing capability to further reduce this pattern over long term use of single paper sizes, something extremely difficult to deal with on the C65xx series. The inclusion of the second fuser unit purportedly there to add additional gloss.

Operationally, it remains to be seen what kinds of problems I will see when the end users get one. No doubt I will see a lot of them initially, as I, and the users learn about these, no doubt no different than my experiences with the C65xx line. I also have no doubt that some users will not bother to read the manuals and insist that the machine do what it was not designed to do, like one customer who has been told for well over two years now that the C6500 is not capable of duplexing 300gsm stocks, yet they insist on pushing this through at 265gsm settings and then wonder why the machine is having problems. One sales rep wants to put a C8000 there. We, the other techs and myself, do not want to see that. Primarily because we know this customer will disregard the limits on that machine and insist on doing 350gsm duplex, along with an assortment of other limitation abuses. The exception would be if he signed a contract that clearly stated he follow the advice of the techs without question.

That said, I know that this machine would be ideal in a couple print shops that do follow our directions on use, but I fear they may not work the machine to its full advantage regarding volume. It remains to be seen, though I have heard from one sales rep that they are very close to making a deal on a couple machines at one of the largest print shops here. Should be interesting to see that happen. We lost them a few years ago to a competitor...but in those days, the best we had was the C500/8050...which was a good machine, but nothing compared to the C65xx series coming out when that tender was lost. The customer I am told, greatly regrets going to another competitor, the quality was not consistent as it was with the C500 is what I heard. Not sure if it was Xerox or Canon they went with. Either way, they reportedly want to see us back.

[Christian_W]

Hello Stirton.M,

good luck for you and your sales team.
I have solves the training for the C8000 too and we have at this time three systems in our field and one system in our showroom.
Our customers are very excited about the quality and the speed of the system.
In the moment we have no experience about problems with this system, so I start this threat to collect some informations.

Best regards
Christian

[BHM]

My personal take is that they over priced this box. I have not yet hand my hands on one but unless you need the humidifier unit or multiple output units, you would be better off getting two C6000s. In our smaller market area, I just do not see anybody forking out that kind of money for one. We have a printer with a C6501 and he is interested mainly because the print speed on thicker stocks does not slow down much. But he is having a hard time justifying the cost.

[Stirton.M]

My personal take is that they over priced this box. I have not yet hand my hands on one but unless you need the humidifier unit or multiple output units, you would be better off getting two C6000s. In our smaller market area, I just do not see anybody forking out that kind of money for one. We have a printer with a C6501 and he is interested mainly because the print speed on thicker stocks does not slow down much. But he is having a hard time justifying the cost.

It would seem overpriced, but the market segment being targeted with this machine is towards print shops who rely on press operations but would like to have something that does not require the lengthy setup and cost overhead that the press machines represent. Though this machine will never replace a machine valued in the $millions, it will certainly go a long way towards providing a reduced cost on items meant for a press but can be done on a toner based machine like this one. The C65xx series machines are really good, but the capabilities of the C8000 put the C65xx series to shame, not to mention the output quality, which is considerably superior to the C65xx series on many levels. We have customers out there with the C6501s and they cannot justify the cost relative to the volume they use those machines. But if you need half a million a month, the C8000 can easily do this without breaking a sweat. The C65xx series, this is pushing the upper duty cycle limits.

I've heard from some peers of mine in other centers like Toronto and Vancouver, the customers really like the machines. Even one customer had bought the machine site unseen a year before it was officially released, they are reportedly very happy with it.

[Stirton.M]

Hello Stirton.M,

good luck for you and your sales team.
I have solves the training for the C8000 too and we have at this time three systems in our field and one system in our showroom.
Our customers are very excited about the quality and the speed of the system.
In the moment we have no experience about problems with this system, so I start this threat to collect some informations.

Best regards
Christian

Another regular here, HORSE, has a few of these in the field if I recall. He's been rather scarce of late, but I am sure he will give some input eventually.

[BHM]

It would seem overpriced, but the market segment being targeted with this machine is towards print shops who rely on press operations but would like to have something that does not require the lengthy setup and cost overhead that the press machines represent. Though this machine will never replace a machine valued in the $millions, it will certainly go a long way towards providing a reduced cost on items meant for a press but can be done on a toner based machine like this one. The C65xx series machines are really good, but the capabilities of the C8000 put the C65xx series to shame, not to mention the output quality, which is considerably superior to the C65xx series on many levels. We have customers out there with the C6501s and they cannot justify the cost relative to the volume they use those machines. But if you need half a million a month, the C8000 can easily do this without breaking a sweat. The C65xx series, this is pushing the upper duty cycle limits.

I've heard from some peers of mine in other centers like Toronto and Vancouver, the customers really like the machines. Even one customer had bought the machine site unseen a year before it was officially released, they are reportedly very happy with it.

That very well could be as I have not personally seen one in action. How is the copy quality compared to a C6000/C7000? If it is considerably better then I could see justifying the cost but if it is only marginally better then...

The C6000 has a SRP of just under $50,000 where the C8000 has an SRP of over $108,000. That is a huge difference. Ignoring any copy quality differences, you could get two C6000s for about the same price as one C8000.

[engineer]

8000 issues

hey guys, is there anyone know about c 8000 problem if we print black 100%, the black color not too solid if we compare with c6501.

[JustManuals]

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Paul@justmanuals.com

[texchar555]

Im with stirton, I went to school on the machine seems like years ago and still have not got the chance to touch one. I hope this thread go well. I wish the guys that have gone to school after August of 2010 would post the latest updates in training.

[Southern Yankee]

What is the SRP of the C7000?

That very well could be as I have not personally seen one in action. How is the copy quality compared to a C6000/C7000? If it is considerably better then I could see justifying the cost but if it is only marginally better then...

The C6000 has a SRP of just under $50,000 where the C8000 has an SRP of over $108,000. That is a huge difference. Ignoring any copy quality differences, you could get two C6000s for about the same price as one C8000.

[RRodgers]

What is the SRP of the C7000?

Yep, and probably do them in tandum and have 120 CPM.

(**edit** 140)

[doma873]

Re: bizhub PRESS C8000

Another regular here, HORSE, has a few of these in the field if I recall. He's been rather scarce of late, but I am sure he will give some input eventually.

Don't know if you all know.. HORSE has left KM.. Sad to see him go.. Great bloke

[texchar555]

Re: bizhub PRESS C8000

I really would like some input as far as Pm parts you guys might be using. I went to school on this beast but have not had a chance to touch it grrrrr. My boss wanted to know whats the part number for the pm kit I told him there is not one. I need your help fellow techs.

[HORSE]

Don't know if you all know.. HORSE has left KM.. Sad to see him go.. Great bloke

Thanks for that Dom.

Its true I got out of the printing business altogether and into the high end Medical Diagnostic business, I seen the writing on the wall ......plus the stuff I work on now make a C8000 look like fax machine.

PS Dom ....Trevor is working with me now as well.