Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

[saburnsjax]

Hi All~
Long time reader, first time poster. This question is from a 'user' point of view.

We have a bizhub C654e with the FS-534 finisher and SD-511 saddle stitch kit.

We often have a need to do small booklets ... maybe 20-40 "logical" pages (i.e., not more than 10 "physical" pages once the booklet is formatted). We are not talking thousands here, we are talking about a couple dozen here, a hundred there, etc. Mostly for churches having events and memorials.

The dilemma we have is that we like to use 28# paper (105 gsm)... which is considered "Thick 1" on the machine ... but the finisher is only rated for "plain paper" (up to 90 gsm) for the fold/center staple.

When printing b/w, it is no problem, we can "lie" to the printer and tell it that it is plain paper and everything comes out beautifully.

But for color, it is a problem. If I tell the printer it is Thick 1, it will fold but not staple. If I "lie" and tell the printer it is Plain, then the print often does not fuse well, even if I print only a couple of booklets and even if not all of the pages are color (which is usually the case).

I don't see any finishers available for this model that will support this type of finishing, and upgrading to a production printer isn't an option at this time.

Are there any tricks or recommendations I can try? ... that won't void our warranty of course :-)

[Mr Spock]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

check out the fs-535 with the sd-512.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

It's not a good idea to promise the customer that a machine will do something when it won't meet machine specs. It might work for a while, but in the end you'll have to admit that the machine was never designed to do that particular task. Or someone else will have to point out that you promised something undeliverable. There is only one end result. It will bite you in the ass now, or later.

Talk to sales. They'll be able to recommend equipment suitable to the task. =^..^=

[saburnsjax]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

check out the fs-535 with the sd-512.

I checked it out but it looks like the sd512 is also only rated up to 90 gsm for center stapling.

I just can't understand why a color mfp - one that is supposedly high quality - doesn't have a booklet finisher available that can staple color booklets. Or trifold. Seems like 28# paper is pretty standard for regular color copies & prints. It's our minimum for color too.

[saburnsjax]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

Talk to sales. They'll be able to recommend equipment suitable to the task. =^..^=

LOL!! The sales guy is the one who promised that not only could it process color booklets, but it could process them on 100# digital gloss (168 gsm).

[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

Although my experience it limited with this particular model, I am surprised the plain paper mode will not work correctly for 28-32#. It works flawlessly with many older models.
There is the possibility that it simply needs to be calibrated to suit the needs of your workplace or it could be malfunctioning

But for color, it is a problem. If I tell the printer it is Thick 1, it will fold but not staple. If I "lie" and tell the printer it is Plain, then the print often does not fuse well, even if I print only a couple of booklets and even if not all of the pages are color (which is usually the case).

When you say its not fusing, do you mean that it is not adhering to the paper and flaking off?
If so, there are some settings in service mode that may help you.

For instance, ask your tech to increase the fuser temperature for plain paper in service mode (I can tell you how, if you want, but you are posting as an end user so I will avoid it for now for your protection...and the machine).
Loosely put, you can think of this setting as forcing the machine to run plain stock as thick 1.
This is something that your provider should at least test for you being that your sales rep seems to blatantly have lied.

[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

I checked it out but it looks like the sd512 is also only rated up to 90 gsm for center stapling.

I just can't understand why a color mfp - one that is supposedly high quality - doesn't have a booklet finisher available that can staple color booklets. Or trifold. Seems like 28# paper is pretty standard for regular color copies & prints. It's our minimum for color too.

I think Konica really should beef up their finishers too, but my opinion is as good as a weak fart on a windy day...

[saburnsjax]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

Although my experience it limited with this particular model, I am surprised the plain paper mode will not work correctly for 28-32#. It works flawlessly with many older models.

That has been my experience with my Canon and my Ricoh, both 3-4 years old. Machines I was HOPING to retire by purchasing this one :-)

There is the possibility that it simply needs to be calibrated to suit the needs of your workplace or it could be malfunctioning



When you say its not fusing, do you mean that it is not adhering to the paper and flaking off?

Yes, it comes out where the print is not adhering to the paper and flaking off. I expected that when I put glossy paper in the tray and forgot to click the heavier paper type, but was SUPER surprised when I learned the hard way early on that even when printing simple color documents (no stapling, no folding) I had to select Thick 1 as the paper type or the print would come out flaky and peely. I did show a big old stack of defects to the tech, and he kindly showed me the specs that show that 28# paper is Thick 1.

They did have to adjust the temperature for Thick 3 and Thick 4 when I was having a similar flaking problem with cardstock (that was within spec). They didn't offer to do it in this case.

[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

Whats the count on this machine?

It sounds as if you might be forced to make the adjustments yourself (as long as they didn't change the default password) or get something more suitable....

[saburnsjax]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

Whats the count on this machine?

It sounds as if you might be forced to make the adjustments yourself (as long as they didn't change the default password) or get something more suitable....

We've only had it since September, the color count is only at 21K. Our volumes don't justify a production level machine and most of the stuff comes out looking great on this machine. I look forward to seeing what solutions our maintenance team offers. So far only the sales guy has offered a solution, and his solution was to upgrade to the SD-512, which is not a solution.

I can always purchase an off-line booklet finisher which would solve many problems (and which is in fact what I was prepared to do before I bought this machine but of course I listened to the sales guy who promised the world... but we don't have it in writing what he promised because we have negotiated pricing so my bad and nobody else to blame for that). I just wanted to explore my options.

I thank everyone for their advice and quick response!

[EarthKmTech]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

i havent had issues with this engine running ~100gsm paper as plain paper in colour mode. I'd be more suspicious of the paper stock and its finish you are using, just because it says that on the packet doesnt mean thats what it really is...

I allow / disallow papers using a micrometer gauge and a visual inspection, gsm ratings on the pack dont mean jack these days and are even more worthless when they come from specialty paper companies that sell in plain packets.

[saburnsjax]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

i havent had issues with this engine running ~100gsm paper as plain paper in colour mode. I'd be more suspicious of the paper stock and its finish you are using, just because it says that on the packet doesnt mean thats what it really is...

I allow / disallow papers using a micrometer gauge and a visual inspection, gsm ratings on the pack dont mean jack these days and are even more worthless when they come from specialty paper companies that sell in plain packets.

I use Hammermill Color Copy Digital 28# exclusively for regular color printing for all page sizes (letter, legal, 11x17, 12x18). Hammermill lists the paper at 105 gsm on the package. I haven't used a caliper on it to verify.

The fusing problem - or at least I should say flaking, non-adhering problem - has manifested itself on all sizes if I forget to select Thick 1, and in fact is more prevalent on the letter size and legal size paper, regardless of whether I am using the saddle finisher or just straight printing. Right now I have my print driver set to default to Thick 1 for color printing and also set all the trays holding 28# paper to Thick 1 to prevent this problem from happening ... which of course also prevents me from doing any booklet finishing, which is what started the thread :-)

[Synaux]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

I use Hammermill Color Copy Digital 28# exclusively for regular color printing for all page sizes (letter, legal, 11x17, 12x18). Hammermill lists the paper at 105 gsm on the package. I haven't used a caliper on it to verify.

That paper is very good, you shouldn't have any problems with that stock.

[methogod]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

Bump up the temp for plain paper, when you need to...

or if you have 100 or more books, send it out to a bindery, should be .30-.45 cents a book to do all finishing.


Free's you up and makes a much nicer book.


another option - print collated sets with out any finishing....
then feed back though as blank plain sheets - no printing just fold and staple...
set to B&W to save clicks.

its can be tricky and not worth the time to make this work...


Next and final trick is go get a C7000 and start printing production quality...

[habik]

Re: Bizhub C654e - Booklet Finishing Question

Sorry to disappoint, but SD-511 will do only Cover Sheet up to Thick 2 and SD512 same as SD- 511 have to read the small print in Service Manual and all the * by each detail ..I think the finisher is perfectly capable of doing it. So ..I'd suggest as well _ Heat up Custom size paper in Service Mode. When I have more time I'll have look in to it my self, as i potentially may want to use it with one of our clients, who is constantly asking why why why it can't do when the previous machine could .