[Jamming] C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

[EarthKmTech]

FS-534 finisher with SD-511.

the first A4 short edge feed page of a new booklet appears to have the LEADING edge get stuck at the cutouts in the stapler section and doesnt drop down any further. Subsequent pages crash into this un dropped sheet at the top and roll up outside the top of the SD unit. Always the first sheet of a new booklet after 3 or 4 booklets have completed.

I believe it is the TRAILING edge fusing curl applied by the machine that is causing this. At times I can run 100+ booklets without problems, other times it will jam after 3. It's not an alignment issue everything is perfect. I have tried various paper brands and all have done it at some stage.

(trailing edge from the fusing unit is the leading edge that enters the SD unit)

I'm thinking of trying another fusing unit / lowering the fusing temperature, but I almost always see a massive amount of trailing edge curl on these machines anyway. Fortunately most people use them for A3 size booklets and thats never a problem as it wont line up with the cutouts in the stapler assy.

Any experiences here ?

[Phrag]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

FS-534 finisher with SD-511.

the first A4 short edge feed page of a new booklet appears to have the LEADING edge get stuck at the cutouts in the stapler section and doesnt drop down any further. Subsequent pages crash into this un dropped sheet at the top and roll up outside the top of the SD unit. Always the first sheet of a new booklet after 3 or 4 booklets have completed.

I believe it is the TRAILING edge fusing curl applied by the machine that is causing this. At times I can run 100+ booklets without problems, other times it will jam after 3. It's not an alignment issue everything is perfect. I have tried various paper brands and all have done it at some stage.

(trailing edge from the fusing unit is the leading edge that enters the SD unit)

I'm thinking of trying another fusing unit / lowering the fusing temperature, but I almost always see a massive amount of trailing edge curl on these machines anyway. Fortunately most people use them for A3 size booklets and thats never a problem as it wont line up with the cutouts in the stapler assy.

Any experiences here ?

Actually Earth, I have a similar issue. It's nothing urgent, but it's there. It's like the lead edge is deflected out of it's regular path and ends up outside of the SD Unit in the middle of Finisher-nowhere.

I didn't imagine the fusing section would be a cause, because it seemed to me that there is a gate sort of just below the SD unit entry that doesn't return to home position. Mind you, I don't think my pages made it anywhere near the staple section. Mines faults further up.

[EarthKmTech]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

When the first sheet gets stuck and doesnt go down far enough it prevents normal operation of that stupidly designed curling plate at the top entrance of the SD unit, the next sheets to come in will end up rolling up outside of the SD unit. You will hear the straining clurling plate making a loud clicking noise due to the stuck first sheet - this is a dead give away the machine is about to jam, it wont untill it tries to complete the booklet by stapling and folding it and cant.

If your having this issue, have a look if there is a a sheet already in the SD unit. It is what causes the incorrect operation of the curling plate/flap/gude/gate thing at the entrance by not dropping properly. What makes life even more interesting, is that it ends up dropping by the time you look at it or simply drops without resistance as soon as you touch it and you wonder WTF is going on and start pulling your hair out.

Let me know.

[Phrag]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

Unfortunately, there isn't anything blocking anything. It just seems that the gate doesn't move back into place.

Now that I'm talking about it again, I'll have to have a look at whether it's a spring or a solenoid which pushes/pulls it into place. Maybe the Spring isn't tense enough.

[EarthKmTech]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

I do believe there is a known, but not yet publicly released issued with that guide not working properly.

[hotfuser]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

I do believe there is a known, but not yet publicly released issued with that guide not working properly.

i have enclosed a video of an issue i had on a C454. is this the same thing that is happening with you?

i changed the copier thinking it was that also changed the finisher with a new SD-511 still the same problem same problem.

the problem turned out to be the paper. i removed paper from my customer to test and the same result happened on my office machine.

it was not that poor quality paper either since changing their paper i have hand no more issues.

[EarthKmTech]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

yep. thats it, and thats the noise of the struggling guide unable to move with the un-dropped first sheet of a new booklet in the way and the subsequent pages rolling up out of the entrance.

Thing thats got me screwed is I've tried it with other paper and at one stage it did 100 no problems, then another time wouldn't do 4.

Customers paper in use isnt cheap stuff either... I think something needs to be changed inside this SD unit design to allow the paper to drop in more reliably.

[hotfuser]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

yep. thats it, and thats the noise of the struggling guide unable to move with the un-dropped first sheet of a new booklet in the way and the subsequent pages rolling up out of the entrance.

Thing thats got me screwed is I've tried it with other paper and at one stage it did 100 no problems, then another time wouldn't do 4.

Customers paper in use isnt cheap stuff either... I think something needs to be changed inside this SD unit design to allow the paper to drop in more reliably.

it was exactly the same here as i did not expect it to be the paper. the first C454 i removed had 9k copies on when i put a new copier in with the original finisher i had the same issue.
i then changed the SD-511 with a new one same problem occurred. replacing the finisher aswell didnt solve the problem either.
finally i advised the customer to change their paper now 450k copies in and all they produce are A5 booklets we seem to have got rid of the problem.

[EarthKmTech]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

do you remember what paper it was that worked ok?

[stevena86]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

I had this issue today. My fix was the paper was not correctly loaded into the second tray. The guides were not set against the paper and the paper was pushed against the back guide which caused the paper to feed through the machine and into the finisher wrong which then caught at the entrance to the saddle unit and gave a jam of 72-25.

After fixing the paper in the tray, I was able to run booklet and tri-fold jobs with no issues.

[blackcat4866]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

Back to your original post, yes, reducing fixing temperature will result in less curl at the machine trail edge ... finisher leading edge. You may also get relief by selecting long grain versus short grain cut paper.

paper grain.jpg

Modern Konica Minolta fusers do not lend themselves to adjusting nipp width ... but depending on how desperate you get, you may try weaker fuser pressure springs. =^..^=

[AVux07]

Re: C454e J72-25 on booklets, new machine

I had this same jam but it would occur with the first sheet. The curl divertor would get set to a horizontal position and not vertical like it should be. After trying the curl sensor and the divertor stepper motor replacing the SD Cont Bd fixed it.