Chip reset vs component life

[John Kaufmann]

Sorry if this basic question has been previously answered, but I searched the forum (and the web) without finding it: Doing some form of chip reset - via chip replacement, chip reset tool or firmware reset tool - is economically attractive, but comes with a nagging question: How often can you do it without actually replacing the component? This question arose in particular for us when our Bizhub C280 began calling for drum replacements at around the projected lifetime, without any noticeable effects on print quality. If reset, presumably they go to twice the recommended life before replacement - or more often? What are the consequences of that for each of these components:

• drum (color or black) ?
• developer (color or black) ?
• transfer belt ?
• transfer roller ?
• fusing unit ?

Any insights into these component lifetime issues would be greatly appreciated. Also, if we do chip resets, which method - chip replacement, chip reset tool or firmware reset tool - is recommended?

[copier tech]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

First of all you DO NOT need to replace the image unit chips on any ANY model of Bizhub. A simple firmware update & 2 soft switches changed in service mode & the machine will NEVER ask for an image unit, developer unit, fuser or transfer unit.

But in answer to your question I find you can get twice the life out of the image units, sometimes 3x but this all depends on customer expectation as lines will start to show on the prints.
You can also fit the black image units in the colour units if you swap the chips (black units are cheaper to buy)

If you fun the fuser unit past life no real issues, but usually one of the rollers will fail, shed it's coating etc.
Again the transfer belt no real issues with extended life, although on the C552 series you may start to get P-21 trouble codes, your C280 will simply start printing lines, however you can clean the cleaning blade on this model to gain more life.

[John Kaufmann]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

First of all you DO NOT need to replace the image unit chips on any ANY model of Bizhub. A simple firmware update & 2 soft switches changed in service mode & the machine will NEVER ask for an image unit, developer unit, fuser or transfer unit.

If you tell the machine to NEVER check component life, do you risk consequences from component aging? Is there no advantage from having it ping you periodically?

But in answer to your question I find you can get twice the life out of the image units, sometimes 3x but this all depends on customer expectation as lines will start to show on the prints.

The C280 has separate drum and developer. Presumably appearance of lines would indicate a drum issue? - what would indicate end of developer life? [With these developer units, I presume that replacing the ferrite would only make sense in a specialized developer refurbishing environment, correct?]

You can also fit the black image units in the colour units if you swap the chips (black units are cheaper to buy)

You mean the only difference between black and color is the life specified in the EEPROM? If that is the case (if I understand you correctly), then why are color components more expensive? IAC, presumably you mean that only for drums, not developers?

If you fun the fuser unit past life no real issues, but usually one of the rollers will fail, shed it's coating etc.

Good point. In that regard, do you have any idea how conservatively the fuser lifetime is specified? - can you get 2x the life from the rollers?

Again the transfer belt no real issues with extended life, although on the C552 series you may start to get P-21 trouble codes, your C280 will simply start printing lines, however you can clean the cleaning blade on this model to gain more life.

Again, good point: If drum lines, replace the drum. If transfer lines, clean the blade - and if that does not cure the problem, replace both belt and roller?


Thanks for all of your thoughts.

[copier tech]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

Damn too many questions, thought I cleared that post up!

[stevena86]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

Only thing I hate to see run past life counter is developer. Everything else is okay, because when the part goes bad, 99% of the time, will have no adverse affect on the rest of the machine, except for print quality. Developer gets over-used and breaks down, and you can get major problems. From it clogging up the waste toner systems to breaking down and misting inside of the machine and getting in to every nook and cranny. It's especially fun when the developer gets in the gears/bushings/shafts of the drive system and destroys them because it's essentially sand paper at that point.

As for the fusers, on some models I can get twice the life of the built-in counter. Others, hardly none at all because they don't put a big enough fuser cleaning web inside of it. Once the machine spools all of the cleaning web out, it rips off the end of the roller and then the pressure/heat rollers get dirty fast and then they break down and you have image issues. The C353/C360 model is one you can usually get 2x the life out of.

Transfer belts are okay to run until they just fall apart. Worst case scenario is on the C360 the waste toner system in the transfer belt gets clogged and you get a big mess inside the machine and have to clean it all out and replace the belt as the belt starts to seize because the gearing system is locked.

If you're getting lines on your prints, first check the drum to make sure it isn't damaged or scratched. If it's okay, check the belt. I've never really had success cleaning the belt blade and having it last much longer. Usually at the point that the belt is putting lines on the prints, it's time to replace the belt. The secondary transfer roller comes with the image transfer belt on the C360 model.

[JR2ALTA]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

Damn too many questions, thought I cleared that post up!

hahah, priceless

[John Kaufmann]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

Only thing I hate to see run past life counter is developer. Everything else is okay, because when the part goes bad, 99% of the time, will have no adverse affect on the rest of the machine, except for print quality. Developer gets over-used and breaks down, and you can get major problems. From it clogging up the waste toner systems to breaking down and misting inside of the machine and getting in to every nook and cranny. It's especially fun when the developer gets in the gears/bushings/shafts of the drive system and destroys them because it's essentially sand paper at that point.

As for the fusers, on some models I can get twice the life of the built-in counter. Others, hardly none at all because they don't put a big enough fuser cleaning web inside of it. Once the machine spools all of the cleaning web out, it rips off the end of the roller and then the pressure/heat rollers get dirty fast and then they break down and you have image issues. The C353/C360 model is one you can usually get 2x the life out of.

Transfer belts are okay to run until they just fall apart. Worst case scenario is on the C360 the waste toner system in the transfer belt gets clogged and you get a big mess inside the machine and have to clean it all out and replace the belt as the belt starts to seize because the gearing system is locked.

If you're getting lines on your prints, first check the drum to make sure it isn't damaged or scratched. If it's okay, check the belt. I've never really had success cleaning the belt blade and having it last much longer. Usually at the point that the belt is putting lines on the prints, it's time to replace the belt. The secondary transfer roller comes with the image transfer belt on the C360 model.

Thank you! That's exactly what I was concerned about: the trade-offs for extending component service times. If I can summarize:

• fuser - 2x
• developer - 1x
• drums - until image problem shows (up to 3x ?)
• transfer belt+roller - until image problem (up to 3x ?)

Translating into page counts (Recommended -> Practical life) for the C280:

• blacK developer: 570K -> 600K
• blacK drum: 100K -> 300K
• color developer: 114K -> 120K
• color drum: 75K -> 120K (replace when developer is replaced)
• transfer: 300K -> replace when blacK developer is replaced
• fusing unit: 523K -> replace when blacK developer is replaced

Are those guidelines consistent with your thinking? If so, may I ask how you go about extending service times? Do you use chip resets or turn off the chip monitoring in the firmware via service mode switches?

Thanks again.

[John Kaufmann]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

Damn too many questions, thought I cleared that post up!

? No follow-up questions allowed? It's moot at this point (because there was a really helpful reply, addressing the kinds of issues that clarify what component service times can be extended, for how long), but I did not understand everything you had to say, so I don't think you cleared it up (though that could be simple density on my part). For example, I still don't understand:

• how, just by changing chips, you can interchange a black drum for a color drum, or black developer for color developer, or
• what firmware update and service switches to set to disable service time monitoring.

I suppose each of those clarifying questions could have been answered simply and quickly, but maybe not. Sorry if I'm a little slow.

[stevena86]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

Unfortunately, I can't help with the last bit, as I do not skip replacements. The company I work for is pretty strict about if it needs replacing, replace it. They feel that in the long run, replacing all the parts at their recommended times is far more cost efficient than not replacing them and having to do entire machine rebuilds when machines are allowed to just run on components until they drop or having to replace a machine out-right.

We also extensively use the KM warranty and recycle programs they have in place.

[John Kaufmann]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

... The company I work for is pretty strict about if it needs replacing, replace it. They feel that in the long run, replacing all the parts at their recommended times is far more cost efficient than not replacing them and having to do entire machine rebuilds when machines are allowed to just run on components until they drop or having to replace a machine out-right. ...

OK. Given that, I really appreciate your earlier coverage of issues involved with component aging: You have thought about the issues pretty carefully, have a decent idea of where you could acceptably save a little money on maintenance costs, and in the end conclude that the component savings are outweighed by other considerations. No doubt that balance is somewhat influenced by this:

We also extensively use the KM warranty and recycle programs they have in place.

That does not apply to us, but I will look into those programs. Meanwhile, either way, your comments have provided a more intelligent basis for evaluating the chip reset and firmware modification offerings.

[emujo]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

Just my 2 cents...
Unlike previous models, the IUs, Fuser, developer stations, X-fer belts, are (for the most part) not serviceable. You get a nick on a drum, requires a full assy swap out. This is expensive enough without having to replace units that have met their life spans based solely on pre drive revolutions and a few color test pages. Same with all the rest of the consumables, if a unit is providing acceptable image quality, it should not have to be replaced just because an internal counter has reached it set point. KM gave us the ability to bypass these counters with the PPLM firmware. It just gets the price to service the MFPs down a bit. Some accounts are the wrong places to turn the features on, ie anyplace that has a low tolerance for color issues. I have never seen a secondary problem induced by allowing the consumables to run past life. IF CQ is acceptable ( by the customers standard) then let it run. I have heard of many issues caused by re-chipping the devices though. We don't do that so it's all hearsay. I think you are over thinking this. Emujo

[John Kaufmann]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

Just my 2 cents... [Component replacement]... is expensive enough without having to replace units that have met their life spans based solely on pre drive revolutions and a few color test pages. Same with all the rest of the consumables, if a unit is providing acceptable image quality, it should not have to be replaced just because an internal counter has reached it set point. KM gave us the ability to bypass these counters with the PPLM firmware. It just gets the price to service the MFPs down a bit.

And that is, in short, all I was looking for. Thanks for mentioning the PPLM firmware; I will look into it.

Some accounts are the wrong places to turn the features on, ie anyplace that has a low tolerance for color issues.

A "low tolerance for color issues" probably does not describe us. Besides lines from a drum or transfer defect (or color registration - which is not related to component life, is it?), I'm not even sure I could identify a color issue.

I have never seen a secondary problem induced by allowing the consumables to run past life. ...

What about the one mentioned by stevena86: Worn developer? He made a good practical case for observing recommended developer life.

I have heard of many issues caused by re-chipping the devices though. We don't do that so it's all hearsay.

That is, you avoid re-chipping or resetting chips by using the PPLM firmware to extend component life? What issues have you heard of by

1. re-chipping?
2. resetting chips?

I think you are over thinking this.

Maybe. Probably. But trying to save some resources without getting burned deserves a little thought. I don't believe in a free lunch ["If something sounds too good to be true..."], but chip resets and other component life extension measures are economical and used by reputable techs - and help sponsor this forum - so I had to learn when they can be safely used. FWIW, it sounds like you have given these issues the same kind of thought.

[zalim]

[John Kaufmann]

Re: Chip reset vs component life

... if a unit is providing acceptable image quality, it should not have to be replaced just because an internal counter has reached it set point. KM gave us the ability to bypass these counters with the PPLM firmware. It just gets the price to service the MFPs down a bit. ...

Well, I did try to look into PPLM, but found nothing on SSD. Any other way it might be known? Where could I find those files?