C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

[Don N.]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Sorry to bring up an old thread but thought I would ask.... Can I use the black developer unit in the colour slots in the c458 like you can in the c224e?

Thanks

We've looked at the DV619k and DV512k side by side. Of course you would change the color rail, but they look like the end block just needs to be cut/shaved off to fit.
NOIW IT GETS INTERESTING. Depending on your knowledge of the CMY 8 series front drum end cap vs K end cap, you notice the front dv bearing difference in cmy vs k. Our theory is if you install a K dv, you could install a k drum, with no modification to the k drum front end cap. We've yet to test it, but if you don't know about the cmy front drum end caps, you need to... Improper spacing can get you weak solids with too much gap and much worse, pull dv off the mag rollers with too little gap toward the front side. No time today to get more specific, just wanted to put that warning out there in case someone says sure go ahead! Look deeper!

One other answer might be, yes, you could pour in/exchange the k developer/carrier itself into a used unit if that unit is in good shape. Say if it lost some dv., or was contaminated...
This conversation needs it's own thread... IDK how to point people from here to there.

[jonbonse]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Sorry to bring up an old thread but thought I would ask.... Can I use the black developer unit in the colour slots in the c458 like you can in the c224e?

Thanks

[Don N.]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

On all 4e machines... Bring an ozone filter with you that youve blown out with a compressor, not just canned air, or replace it. Charge builds up, especially on Cyan unit due to its location. Verify no toner is coating the dv mag. rollers when dv is removed. Usually residue from bad toner or drywall construction dust can stain the mag roller. If an oem drum gets burnished by dv pull friction, it can pull out dv quickly. I had one with only slight visible wear at the rear of drum & it would pull developer from any color dv unit I slid it into. Only had 10k on that oem drum. Any problem on ony color or black dv or drum can affect other units. So far, Katun K drums (chipped for ymc as needed) are the only drums we're having good luck with when OEM isnt available. Copylite toner is all we use. Thousands of tubes. No problem.

[Zesti]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Just to add my funny experience with this C454e with 28K counters only.
It all started with aftermarket toners and the machines was like MAD. The customer contacted couple of service providers with no positive result but machine got in more deteriorated condition. At last someone referred machine to my workshop. The machine was throwing code 5603 on arrival. Cyan developer was pouring out and other DV units, drums and even ITB were in very bad shape. Fixed all dev units, replaced drums and 5603 was gone..... wasted some time to trouble shoot 5603 for bad strip cable and PH unit and FRCB and bla abla bla (even consulted this thread for . The I simply disconnected HV board control connectors from PRCB and 5603 was gone. So the figured out that either one of the drum unit or DV unit is bad. Cyan was the culprit. After all that machine was fine to go and delivered to customer. Customer was provided with OEM toners, after couple of days customer called back saying that his Magenta toner is going down way too fast with very prints as usual. Upon inspection found Magenta toner scattering inside machine. Machine was called back in workshop. The Magenta level history was going down and down, and dropped to zero while manually feeding toner... all the toner was going directly to waste...... Scratched my head for 2 more days. Replaced HV board to no avail..... and now the climax..... swapped Cyan drum with Magenta AND EVERYTHING SETTLED DOWN.......... can any one explain this. The machine has left workshop after through inspection but couldn't figure out what exactly GOOD happened.

[lazymangr]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Thought I'd share this info that was kindly passed on by another tech,

We now fit new, genuine black dev units in all positions on 4 series machines, just remove the lower wiring harness cover from your old colour dev unit (3 screws) and swap the cover and harness onto the new black dev unit (keep the new chip in place to reset the counter).

You'll need about 30-40 cyan sky shots to pull the cyan toner into the new unit, takes 10 minutes start to finish and you've got a brand new genuine Developer unit for about 10% the cost of ordering a colour one.

Works a treat for us, usually do this along side a new Cyan drum (also a converted genuine black unit) and the problem goes away.

Hope this helps someone.

thank you for that info, i used that a lot and works. but how about 8 series machines? i have searched all forum, didnt find anything. i am 99% sure that will work, but is there anyone done it?

[copiertec]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Boltaction- Direction of air flow from right (K) to left (C) + it's next to the K which is always in use = More ozone/charge buildup on C than M or Y. That's my guess.
Regsys- All we can do is wait & see but please take an ozone filter that looks fairly clean to you when held up to a good light and bring it back to the shop & blow it out with a compressor @ 125 PSI or more. Then flip it over and blow it out again. Impressive how much of a cloud came out of a "clean" looking ozone filter! Better be outside because it will shock you what comes out. Rust colored ozone. It's not rust. Let some get on your finger when blowing it out & smell it. Nasty ozone stink like a sewer! Try to wipe it off. It won't come off like rust or toner. Windex takes it off just like it always has cleaned ozone. Also it's not a mixture of colored toners bc the same color comes out of a K only unit.
We are clearing the OZONE filter counter in service now after cleaning them to track when it's been done.

AGAIN, Handy to carry a clean spare filter or two around because your canned air just ain't gonna do it in the field like a compressor at @ 125 PSI.

These work pretty good out in the field as well on filters. Has also fixed many mystery paper jams in the document scanners as well. Although, nothing beats a good tear down and cleaning.

Amazon.com: XPOWER A-2 Airrow Pro Multi-Use Electric Computer Duster Dryer Air Pump Blower - Blue : Electronics

[Don N.]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

We have strongly suspected that the drum units have been the cause of 90 percent of the cyan developer issue. So the ozone issue makes sense, however, the question remains: why is it always cyan?

Boltaction- Direction of air flow from right (K) to left (C) + it's next to the K which is always in use = More ozone/charge buildup on C than M or Y. That's my guess.
Regsys- All we can do is wait & see but please take an ozone filter that looks fairly clean to you when held up to a good light and bring it back to the shop & blow it out with a compressor @ 125 PSI or more. Then flip it over and blow it out again. Impressive how much of a cloud came out of a "clean" looking ozone filter! Better be outside because it will shock you what comes out. Rust colored ozone. It's not rust. Let some get on your finger when blowing it out & smell it. Nasty ozone stink like a sewer! Try to wipe it off. It won't come off like rust or toner. Windex takes it off just like it always has cleaned ozone. Also it's not a mixture of colored toners bc the same color comes out of a K only unit.
We are clearing the OZONE filter counter in service now after cleaning them to track when it's been done.

AGAIN, Handy to carry a clean spare filter or two around because your canned air just ain't gonna do it in the field like a compressor at @ 125 PSI.

[Boltaction]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Long thread.. We are tending to believe the ozone filter in back is not allowing enough flow. Blowing it out with a strong canned air is not as effective as using a compressor at your shop, and how often do you have a FULL can of air? So we're blowing them out at the shop & carrying clean spares to swap in the field. Possibly ozone is building in the charger areas for lack of good circulation and all it takes is an older drum, poor quality toner, old dv, and as has been mentioned, low color usage makes the toner and/or dv break down smaller since no new dv or toner is being introduced. This agrees with why cyan mostly... because its next to the k that is used o long runs and the most ozone accumulation. If KM didn't agree, then why did they rework the whole air circulation in the 8 series? I know there's direct charge rollers now, but the air circulation is better now, not less, even in a reduced ozone/charge internal environment.

Bottom line blow out the ozone filter in back and you'd better do it outside!!!

We have strongly suspected that the drum units have been the cause of 90 percent of the cyan developer issue. So the ozone issue makes sense, however, the question remains: why is it always cyan?

[REGSIS]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

I was thinking too there is something about that ozone filter, that it has something to do with this issue.

I have machines with 500k, 700k 900k without this issue and some with only 130k, also yesterday one with 170k with dev C gone.
All machines are basicly of the same age, and the only difference is that the machines with larger counter and without problems had ozone filter replaced once (or twice) because it was included in transfer kit.
For some of them with more than 300k ozone filter is not replaced because KM decided to sold them separately. Ordered kit, received belt and transfer roller.
That machines have problems, and also machines with lower counter.
I will try to replace ozone filter on all affected machines on next PM. Some of them (ozone filters) were not soiled with cyan or dust.
I think that age of ozone filter might be a factor in this issue. I don't think cleaning will be of any help.

[Don N.]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Long thread.. We are tending to believe the ozone filter in back is not allowing enough flow. Blowing it out with a strong canned air is not as effective as using a compressor at your shop, and how often do you have a FULL can of air? So we're blowing them out at the shop & carrying clean spares to swap in the field. Possibly ozone is building in the charger areas for lack of good circulation and all it takes is an older drum, poor quality toner, old dv, and as has been mentioned, low color usage makes the toner and/or dv break down smaller since no new dv or toner is being introduced. This agrees with why cyan mostly... because its next to the k that is used o long runs and the most ozone accumulation. If KM didn't agree, then why did they rework the whole air circulation in the 8 series? I know there's direct charge rollers now, but the air circulation is better now, not less, even in a reduced ozone/charge internal environment.

Bottom line blow out the ozone filter in back and you'd better do it outside!!!

[REGSIS]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Keep in mind that dev unit is not an issue, and replacing it won't solve the problem.
Lower the TCR for cyan and even magenta to -1, (even -2 for C if not enough).
Pull out dev C (and M if needed) and vacum all excessive toner usually from both ends.
Rotate magnet roller backwards until paper dust shows up and vacum it from a distance, making sure yiu don't suck the developer.
Clean dusty charge corona on drum unit or replace with new if more than 100k - 150k of life.
Check these and clean belt cleaner and IDC sensors every 30k and you will have situation under control.

From my experience, the problem couldn't be solved at once, you'll have to keep it under control otherwise it will come back sooner than later.
Overworn drum and especially soiled charge grids on machines with lower toner coverage are causing this issue.
Why cyan (mainly) and magenta (sometimes).
Look at State confirmation/table number; cyan has the lowest Vdc of all and cannot hold excessive toner on front and back end of magnet roller which then soil the drum.

After I start to lower TCR value for C to -1 dusting is under control, never had to replace dev unit.

Before that (with TCR C to 0) drums C were heavily soiled with cyan toner.

[jonbonse]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems


Ah, I see!

Thank you!

[ezzysi]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Hi

I'm interested in trying the black developer in the cyan slot however as the TC/reset chip is one PCB, ideally i would want a new TC/reset chip in the black developer unit incase the chip in the old cyan developer unit is faulty?

What's your thoughts?

[copyman]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Thought I'd share this info that was kindly passed on by another tech,

We now fit new, genuine black dev units in all positions on 4 series machines, just remove the lower wiring harness cover from your old colour dev unit (3 screws) and swap the cover and harness onto the new black dev unit (keep the new chip in place to reset the counter).

You'll need about 30-40 cyan sky shots to pull the cyan toner into the new unit, takes 10 minutes start to finish and you've got a brand new genuine Developer unit for about 10% the cost of ordering a colour one.

Works a treat for us, usually do this along side a new Cyan drum (also a converted genuine black unit) and the problem goes away.

Hope this helps someone.

Old news but still may help someone. Been talked about on this forum for several years now.

[jonbonse]

Re: C224e/C284e/C364e/C454e/C545e cyan dev unit problems

Thought I'd share this info that was kindly passed on by another tech,

We now fit new, genuine black dev units in all positions on 4 series machines, just remove the lower wiring harness cover from your old colour dev unit (3 screws) and swap the cover and harness onto the new black dev unit (keep the new chip in place to reset the counter).

You'll need about 30-40 cyan sky shots to pull the cyan toner into the new unit, takes 10 minutes start to finish and you've got a brand new genuine Developer unit for about 10% the cost of ordering a colour one.

Works a treat for us, usually do this along side a new Cyan drum (also a converted genuine black unit) and the problem goes away.

Hope this helps someone.

Hi

I'm interested in trying the black developer in the cyan slot however as the TC/reset chip is one PCB, ideally i would want a new TC/reset chip in the black developer unit incase the chip in the old cyan developer unit is faulty?

What's your thoughts?