Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

[copydocinc]

I just replaced Maintenance Kit A (Black Dev, Drum, Transfer units, Fuser, PF Tires)
Ran through all the sims for adjustments and counter resets. Tested about 20 pages.
I also replaced the black toner, since it was already saying low and I could tell the cartg was empty.
Everything seemed good and I left my customers office.
About 2 hours later, my customer calls with these problems.
K,M,Y toners empty and replace My customer replaced them.
Then it says shake the K toner, Done
Then shake the M,Y toners, Done
Then K toner is empty, opened up pulled out toner and put back in, since it was still full
Then M,Y toners empty, Opened up pulled out both toners and put back in, since they were still full
Then it starts back at shake the k toner again and so on.
This cycle keeps going and doesn't ever come to ready.
I tested the toner motor and it works, can also here it after closing the door and it says adding toner everytime,
then the toner messages start up again.
I went back and all this continued with me as well, so I had to leave and now
I'm going back to upgrade the firmware, but not feeling good that this will fix it.

Any known issues on this problem or am I going to have toner drive unit problems to contend with?

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

Just had thread running on a similar issue. Read this and you'll have a great understanding of how the toner system works and what may be causing your issue.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

By the way, if the toners are OEM and they're full but the machine is saying that they're empty, it sounds like something is blocking the toner path or you're losing drive somewhere between the toner motor and cartridges.

[KYO_OEM]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

did you check U155/ Sensor output?
Value ~230-250
Did you remove the toner supply cover from new bk dv unit?

[copydocinc]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

did you check U155/ Sensor output?
Value ~230-250
Did you remove the toner supply cover from new bk dv unit?

I did remove the toner supply cover from new bk dv unit.
I will check the toner sensor output.

It's just weird, since this happened after installing the new MK parts, which are only black related, but have problems with 2 of the color toners as well.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

I did remove the toner supply cover from new bk dv unit.
I will check the toner sensor output.

It's just weird, since this happened after installing the new MK parts, which are only black related, but have problems with 2 of the color toners as well.

I agree that it is strange that 2 of the colors are showing toner empty but there's really only 3 variables.

1. Toner chip.
2. Toner motor
3. Toner path

I suppose I should include the toner sensor, too, but I don't think that's likely.

PS - Have you tried installing the old DV unit and seeing if the problem goes away? Try putting it back in and running enough pages to see if the problem has gone away. If so, that would point to the new DV being bad, IMHO.

[masterchill]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

When you did the kit was the machine unplugged? I know they had issues with these machines that people were installing the kits with them still plugged in and the new parts would not register correctly and there would be issues. I am not saying just turned off you have to fully unplug these machines.

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

When you did the kit was the machine unplugged? I know they had issues with these machines that people were installing the kits with them still plugged in and the new parts would not register correctly and there would be issues. I am not saying just turned off you have to fully unplug these machines.

Good point. I read a thread on here about that. If memory serves, I think the solution was to take all the DV's and Drums out with the power off and then trun the machine back on and let it code out. Then reinstall the new supplies with the power off and then turn back on.

[jmaister]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

Its a old kyocera quirk, if thats what it is.

Take all the toner out, close the cover. Restart the machine, wait until the screen say ready to copy, then put all the toner back in.
Happens from time to time.

[masterchill]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

I think with this you will have to install new parts again if they don't register correctly.

[copydocinc]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

Ok, so I found the problem, but still concerned.
I completely disassembled the whole machine to get to the toner distribution assy.
It is the tubes, augers, springs, gears, belts, shutters etc. that move the toner to the developer units, after the toner motors have dropped toner form the toner cartridges down into this unit.
As you install the toner crtg(any color) it opens a little shutter that allows toner to drop into the top of the distribution unit.
When you install the developer units they open a similar shutter that allows toner to drop into the top of the developer unit, from the bottom of the distribution unit.
In between the toner crtg and the developer unit there is an spiral auger in a tube that moves the toner over, about 2 inches, and then down another tube using a spring, that is moved up and down
to help drop the toner down, the spring is moved up and down by the auger that has an offset shaft on the auger, that moved the toner over to it.
This is all one unit that simultaneously moves all 4 toner colors at the same time, with sponges between each color, so they don't mix with each other. Each color uses up about 4 inches of the auger area.
So now there is a gear on the end of the auger, of course outside of the unit, but part of the assembly. That gear has a flat area that matches up with the flat area on the end of the shaft of the auger.
There are a couple of other gears that drive this gear as well as one gear that drives a long belt to the other side of the unit that end up driving the toner waste area of the transfer belt unit.

Anyway what happened is in the black toner area of the auger, the toner hardened up(possibly because it's the closest to the fuser unit?) and stopped the auger from turning, causing the gear teeth to grind
down quite a bit and eventually the flat area on the end of the auger wore down as well as the flat area on the inside of the gear. So the gear was turning, with a little grinding from teeth wear, but the auger
shaft was not turning, which made it so no toners of any color could drop into the developer units. This caused the series of toner empty or toner low messages, since this machine measures toner levels by how
much toner gets dropped into the developer units.

If you've lasted this long reading my novel, then you night as well hear the rest.
Finding all this out and reassembling the machine(a miracle) took nearly 20 hours. I could do it in maybe 10 hours now. So many parts have to come off and some metal frames also have to be removed just
to get this toner distribution unit out. I took the time to do this, because of curiosity, not practicality. It certainly was not worth the time for moneys sake.
The reason I'm still concerned is that I don't really know what caused the black toner to harden up so bad inside the auger area. I think close proximity to the fuser, but a little part of me wonders about the new
black developer unit possibly having some sort of problem, causing it all to back up into the auger area and compress together, but it sure seemed like the toner had hardened form melting. I dunno.
The ultimate fix I suppose would be to replace the toner distribution unit, but I'm not going to take it apart again. Not worth the money and also could happen again if the developer unit caused it.
Take that for what it's worth and hang it in your tool case.
By the way. This was the toughest unrepair job I've ever done, bit a little fun too. Sooooo many parts I didn't know if I would get it back together.
Thanks for reading

[BillyCarpenter]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

Ok, so I found the problem, but still concerned.
I completely disassembled the whole machine to get to the toner distribution assy.
It is the tubes, augers, springs, gears, belts, shutters etc. that move the toner to the developer units, after the toner motors have dropped toner form the toner cartridges down into this unit.
As you install the toner crtg(any color) it opens a little shutter that allows toner to drop into the top of the distribution unit.
When you install the developer units they open a similar shutter that allows toner to drop into the top of the developer unit, from the bottom of the distribution unit.
In between the toner crtg and the developer unit there is an spiral auger in a tube that moves the toner over, about 2 inches, and then down another tube using a spring, that is moved up and down
to help drop the toner down, the spring is moved up and down by the auger that has an offset shaft on the auger, that moved the toner over to it.
This is all one unit that simultaneously moves all 4 toner colors at the same time, with sponges between each color, so they don't mix with each other. Each color uses up about 4 inches of the auger area.
So now there is a gear on the end of the auger, of course outside of the unit, but part of the assembly. That gear has a flat area that matches up with the flat area on the end of the shaft of the auger.
There are a couple of other gears that drive this gear as well as one gear that drives a long belt to the other side of the unit that end up driving the toner waste area of the transfer belt unit.

Anyway what happened is in the black toner area of the auger, the toner hardened up(possibly because it's the closest to the fuser unit?) and stopped the auger from turning, causing the gear teeth to grind
down quite a bit and eventually the flat area on the end of the auger wore down as well as the flat area on the inside of the gear. So the gear was turning, with a little grinding from teeth wear, but the auger
shaft was not turning, which made it so no toners of any color could drop into the developer units. This caused the series of toner empty or toner low messages, since this machine measures toner levels by how
much toner gets dropped into the developer units.

If you've lasted this long reading my novel, then you night as well hear the rest.
Finding all this out and reassembling the machine(a miracle) took nearly 20 hours. I could do it in maybe 10 hours now. So many parts have to come off and some metal frames also have to be removed just
to get this toner distribution unit out. I took the time to do this, because of curiosity, not practicality. It certainly was not worth the time for moneys sake.
The reason I'm still concerned is that I don't really know what caused the black toner to harden up so bad inside the auger area. I think close proximity to the fuser, but a little part of me wonders about the new
black developer unit possibly having some sort of problem, causing it all to back up into the auger area and compress together, but it sure seemed like the toner had hardened form melting. I dunno.
The ultimate fix I suppose would be to replace the toner distribution unit, but I'm not going to take it apart again. Not worth the money and also could happen again if the developer unit caused it.
Take that for what it's worth and hang it in your tool case.
By the way. This was the toughest unrepair job I've ever done, bit a little fun too. Sooooo many parts I didn't know if I would get it back together.
Thanks for reading

Thanks for following up. Enjoyed the read. Sounds like a convoluted toner add system. Hope I never run into this problem.

[jmaister]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

Saturn series had an issue where the transfer belt waster toner cap would pop and flood the map tray compartment when the waste toner would back up.

The fix was to add a spring in the nozzle sitting on the auger, so that when the auger spins, the toner would not pack up.

Tone have some fluidity, but not much. If they are using thebmachine beyond its purpose. I suppose the the rate of the auger couodnt keep up how much it was being pushed to it.


And the 255c, 2551ci, 406ci, are the different variation of Saturn's successor,atleast for me.

Because, it basically inherited the major crap from Saturn.

Drum has lines, toner packs up, and developer pukes.



I would do a factory reset in case someone played withs service mode settings.

[copydocinc]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

Saturn series had an issue where the transfer belt waster toner cap would pop and flood the map tray compartment when the waste toner would back up.

The fix was to add a spring in the nozzle sitting on the auger, so that when the auger spins, the toner would not pack up.

Toner tho have some fluidity, but not much.


And the 255c, 2551ci, 406ci, are the different variation of Saturn's successor,atleast for me.

Because, it basically inherited the major crap from Saturn.

Drum has lines, toner packs up, and developer pukes.

That was a Kyocera bulletin repair and they sent out those little springs for that fix.
The 406ci waste empties out of the transfer belt in the front left of the machine, but maybe a similar setup
but completely different from the problem we're talking about on this one. This is new toner dropping into developer units

[jmaister]

Re: Kyocera 406ci Toner empty problem

That was a Kyocera bulletin repair and they sent out those little springs for that fix.
The 406ci waste empties out of the transfer belt in the front left of the machine, but maybe a similar setup
but completely different from the problem we're talking about on this one. This is new toner dropping into developer units

Your developer is not outputting as fast as it being fed.

I would facotry reset incase servicer mode setting was compromised.