CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

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  • ignacio.cortez
    Trusted Tech

    100+ Posts
    • Jul 2010
    • 176

    #1

    CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

    I have a 820 with a DP that will not detect a paper size of 11X8.5, when scanning it through the DP it will detect it as 8.5X11 and will rotate the image so it will print perpendicular to the page. Opened the DP and cleaned the contacts on the slider guides (wish they used photo sensors instead of these contacts) closed it back up and tried again, still detecting the same thing, I have a feeling is the DP Controller board but I wanted to see if anyone has had this before (PS will a 6030 DP board work here (not the same number but figured I asked))

    It is also Jamming on Tray 1, I replaced the P/U rollers, but it will still jam right out of the tray, it cannot be the conveying sensor because Tray 2 also uses the same sensor and that one works fine, 3 and 4 also work fine. I've played with the tension springs for the sep roller to no avail. I tried swapping the Feed unit with a 6030 feed unit, but it will not detect tray 2 at all, only tray 1. It almost seems like the Sep roller is pushed up too far up and the paper cannot move out, or as fast to the conveying area. Any ideas on this one?
  • JustManuals
    Field Supervisor

    5,000+ Posts
    • Jan 2006
    • 9838

    #2
    Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

    This Parts & Service manual can be purchased for $12.77 and downloaded immediately after payment from

    Just Manuals ~ The Internet's largest selection of manuals ~ Instant Downloads

    Paul@justmanuals.com

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    • ignacio.cortez
      Trusted Tech

      100+ Posts
      • Jul 2010
      • 176

      #3
      Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

      Originally posted by manuals4you
      This Parts & Service manual can be purchased for $12.77 and downloaded immediately after payment from

      Just Manuals ~ The Internet's largest selection of manuals ~ Instant Downloads

      Paul@justmanuals.com
      Got the Manuals, but thanks anyways

      Comment

      • jmaister
        certified scrub

        Site Contributor
        500+ Posts
        • Aug 2010
        • 755

        #4
        Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

        when its copying the wrong orientation, does it happen on all of the trays?

        Any particular jam code you're getting?

        Can you put a thin piece of paper in the feeder, but move the guide, does the width reflect correctly on the touch screen? Can you copy legal size (14x8.5) paper?
        Last edited by jmaister; 07-22-2011, 07:00 AM. Reason: wrong word
        Idling colour developers are not healthy developers.

        Comment

        • ignacio.cortez
          Trusted Tech

          100+ Posts
          • Jul 2010
          • 176

          #5
          Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

          Originally posted by jmaister

          1.- when its printing the wrong orientation, does it happen on all of the trays?

          2.- Any particular jam code you're getting?

          3.- approx age of this 820?

          4.- Can you put a thin piece of paper in the feeder, but move the guide, does the width reflect correctly on the touch screen?
          1.- Yes, all trays will rotate the image
          2.- Don't remember the number, but it's the one for Tray 1 Misfeed
          3.- About 1 Year, give or take a month
          4.- No, Doesn't matter how far you move the slider guides, size width stays the same.

          PS, is not "Printing" the wrong orientation, only "Copying" (It only happens when you copy, not when you print)

          Comment

          • jmaister
            certified scrub

            Site Contributor
            500+ Posts
            • Aug 2010
            • 755

            #6
            Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

            edit: oops, didnt read the whole post, sry!

            I'd check the pin value sir.

            Edit: another thought, continuity test on the harnes?
            Last edited by jmaister; 07-22-2011, 06:59 AM. Reason: I should read more..
            Idling colour developers are not healthy developers.

            Comment

            • ignacio.cortez
              Trusted Tech

              100+ Posts
              • Jul 2010
              • 176

              #7
              Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

              I never said I used a SIM code to check the width (I did however, set a 8.5x11, when scanning it detected it as 8.5X11, when I set it as 11X8.5 it still detected it as 8.5X11 when scanned, if I covered the far photo sensor, it detected it as 8.5X14)

              No physical damage to the Harness, Cleaned the contacts for the sliders, didn't see any physical damage either. Haven't check Pin Out Values

              Cleaned the copper contacts from foreign objects (not a whole lot, just some dust) Still does not detect width changes

              Comment

              • blackcat4866
                Master Of The Obvious

                Site Contributor
                10,000+ Posts
                • Jul 2007
                • 23008

                #8
                Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

                What happens when you lay the original on the glass? Same effect, or different?

                When you cleaned and re-assembled the original tray width detection, did you meter out the connector to see that the values change as the guides move? It's possible that the contacts are in good condition, just not making proper contact due to ... maybe a warped plastic original tray ... maybe physical damage to the tray ... maybe a harness/connector problem.

                It most certainly could be a controller board problem, but in my opinion it's more likely to be something simple.
                If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                Comment

                • ignacio.cortez
                  Trusted Tech

                  100+ Posts
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 176

                  #9
                  Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

                  Originally posted by blackcat4866
                  What happens when you lay the original on the glass? Same effect, or different?

                  When you cleaned and re-assembled the original tray width detection, did you meter out the connector to see that the values change as the guides move? It's possible that the contacts are in good condition, just not making proper contact due to ... maybe a warped plastic original tray ... maybe physical damage to the tray ... maybe a harness/connector problem.

                  It most certainly could be a controller board problem, but in my opinion it's more likely to be something simple.
                  Copes from the Glass come out they way they should, only when using the DP is when it only seems to detect 8.5X11 no matter how wide or narrow the Slider Guides are set to, the only time it actually changes is when you cover the Photo sensor, then it detects an 8.5X14

                  I did not measured resistance or voltage on the contacts, plastic trays do seem to be fine, no warped or obvious deformities whatsoever. Harness seem fine physically speaking, did not measure the connectors.

                  They did tell me that earlier (before my time with this company) we (the company) had to replace some boards because they got damaged (This is a confectionary factory (they make candies)) That is one of the reasons why I have a feeling it is the DP Controller board, Has anyone tried to swap one of these boards with the 6030/8030 series (They seem to pretty close)

                  Comment

                  • blackcat4866
                    Master Of The Obvious

                    Site Contributor
                    10,000+ Posts
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 23008

                    #10
                    Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

                    They're different:

                    CS-6030: 303H601012
                    CS-820: 303MW94020

                    No good can come of swapping these boards. =^..^=
                    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                    Comment

                    • ignacio.cortez
                      Trusted Tech

                      100+ Posts
                      • Jul 2010
                      • 176

                      #11
                      Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

                      Originally posted by ignacio.cortez
                      I have a 820 with a DP that will not detect a paper size of 11X8.5, when scanning it through the DP it will detect it as 8.5X11 and will rotate the image so it will print perpendicular to the page. Opened the DP and cleaned the contacts on the slider guides (wish they used photo sensors instead of these contacts) closed it back up and tried again, still detecting the same thing, I have a feeling is the DP Controller board but I wanted to see if anyone has had this before (PS will a 6030 DP board work here (not the same number but figured I asked))

                      It is also Jamming on Tray 1, I replaced the P/U rollers, but it will still jam right out of the tray, it cannot be the conveying sensor because Tray 2 also uses the same sensor and that one works fine, 3 and 4 also work fine. I've played with the tension springs for the sep roller to no avail. I tried swapping the Feed unit with a 6030 feed unit, but it will not detect tray 2 at all, only tray 1. It almost seems like the Sep roller is pushed up too far up and the paper cannot move out, or as fast to the conveying area. Any ideas on this one?
                      UPDATE:

                      I replaced the DP Main board, and the Contact and Contact board on the sliders, the issue remained the same initially, replaced the tension springs and the Pick Up roller assembly on Tray 1, the paper gets past the pickup rollers and stops at the registration roller, swapped sensors on both trays, issue remained the same. Towards the end of the service call (about 7PM) the screen started showing Reset Documents on the Document Processor, After temporarily swapping the old with the new board the issue remains the same, I have a feeling this is an Engine Board issue, any ideas?

                      PS this MFP is located on the production office of a confections manufacturer, so the very refined sugar crystals are in the air, you can wipe the dust from inside the mfp and it feels sticky (the dust)

                      Comment

                      • blackcat4866
                        Master Of The Obvious

                        Site Contributor
                        10,000+ Posts
                        • Jul 2007
                        • 23008

                        #12
                        Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

                        I get the feeling that you don't like your meter.

                        The tray width detection connects to the DP Main PWB at YC8-5 and YC8-6. If you set your meter for a 5vdc reading, place positive on YC8-6 and negative at ground you should be able to see variation between 0 and 5vdc.

                        The original Width Detection Switch (OWSW) connects to the DP Main PWB, which connects to the Scanner PWB. IMHO these are the main components to focus on.

                        Don't be afraid of your meter. It is your friend. =^..^=
                        If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                        1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                        2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                        3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                        4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                        5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                        blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                        Comment

                        • ignacio.cortez
                          Trusted Tech

                          100+ Posts
                          • Jul 2010
                          • 176

                          #13
                          Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

                          Originally posted by blackcat4866
                          I get the feeling that you don't like your meter.

                          The tray width detection connects to the DP Main PWB at YC8-5 and YC8-6. If you set your meter for a 5vdc reading, place positive on YC8-6 and negative at ground you should be able to see variation between 0 and 5vdc.

                          The original Width Detection Switch (OWSW) connects to the DP Main PWB, which connects to the Scanner PWB. IMHO these are the main components to focus on.

                          Don't be afraid of your meter. It is your friend. =^..^=
                          I don't, well the one assigned to me by the company, its a Piece Of Junk, I got out my trusty Radio Shack pocket Meter and measured across the sensors, all sensors were fine, I could see the On/Off on all of them, then I measured out the Wire Harness (grey part) the two wires on the size had been setup on the tight wrap too tight and they had gotten cut inside the insulator, I Jerry_Rigged the wire harness, size does work, but I still get the other DP issue, The Screen constantly says "Reset Document on Document Processor" and will not go to Ready state, I've re-checked ALL sensors, even swapped them with known working ones, to no avail, All wires have continuity and I get the right voltages across the sensors/switches, I've used both Old and New boards Still suspect Engine Board, I left the DP disconnected and at least it copies via the Glass, but I just left it like that to get the machine going since I did not wanted to leave it down again. Any Ideas?

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                          • jmaister
                            certified scrub

                            Site Contributor
                            500+ Posts
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 755

                            #14
                            Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

                            If the width sensor wire is pinch to the point where its cut, I'd check others as well.

                            If it were me, I would recheck the harness base on this...dp.jpg


                            or the replace the board, go with gut.
                            Idling colour developers are not healthy developers.

                            Comment

                            • ignacio.cortez
                              Trusted Tech

                              100+ Posts
                              • Jul 2010
                              • 176

                              #15
                              Re: CS/KM 820 DP not Detecting correct size and Jamming on Tray 1

                              Originally posted by jmaister
                              If the width sensor wire is pinch to the point where its cut, I'd check others as well.

                              If it were me, I would recheck the harness base on this...[ATTACH=CONFIG]11258[/ATTACH]


                              or the replace the board, go with gut.
                              I'm ordering the Wire Harnesses (I had to rig them (the ones for Original Size) since they were split) but the board has been replaced, the issue is the same on either new or old boards

                              I'm scheduled to go out again next week with the Regional Rep, hopefully we can get it going. Too bad I can just order a DP for it. Too much problems with this machine.

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