KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

[PCL]

We have a few Kyoceras. One particular 4035 is very loud anytime the paper feed motor is running. Kind of a buzz/rattle sound.

I don't deal with Kyocera internals a lot, but our normal Kyocera guy is stumped (he thinks it might be a clutch) and it is my baby now.

What I have tried:

- Replaced the left cover feed with a spare because I initially thought the noise was coming from there.
- Replaced the housing feed A (what is it actually called?) with a spare because it sounded like the next likely culprit.
- Replaced the paper feed motor.

When I replaced the PFM: Success! It sounded liked a new printer, very quiet and smooth. Screwed the back sheet metal back on, did some test prints, patted myself on the back, and managed to make it home by 7:30 PM last night.

This morning, I hear somebody say something about the noise. I check. Arghhh!!! It sounds just like before.

So, what did I do that temporarily fixed it? How can I make it stay fixed?

[PCL]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

MP3 of said noise attached.

[darry1322]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

If it makes the noise from every feed tray : it sounds like the middle transport unit.

If it makes the noise from the large capacity feeder only : it sounds life the frame holding the feed head clutches down has a broken tab.

[nmfaxman]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

It sounds like a metal gear slipping on a nylon gear.

I would pull the PF motor and look @ the drive gear.

If there are no teeth left, time for a new nylon gear and find the bind in the drive that caused it.

Nylon gears are designed to fail before the motor burns out.

[blackcat4866]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

I think I'd take a look at the bypass lift clutch. Its a combination spring wrap/electromagnetic clutch that can rust badly, and make a horrendous noise. When you see the pile of rust, you'll know you are getting close. The FalconIII uses a similar/substituteable lift clutch. =^..^=

[allan]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

It sounds like a metal gear slipping on a nylon gear.

I would pull the PF motor and look @ the drive gear.

If there are no teeth left, time for a new nylon gear and find the bind in the drive that caused it.

Nylon gears are designed to fail before the motor burns out.

KM B250 and AF1515 the metal gear on the motor would wear down before the much larger plastic gear goes, It does sound alot like that but then nothing would work including the paper feed.

[PCL]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

Thanks, I will take a look at the bypass feed clutch Monday evening.

It is just odd that it was perfect after I replaced the paper feed motor. I printed 20 pages and the thing just purred.

Could this be related to bulletin 7610?

[GESPAGE]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

MP3 of said noise attached.

Due to the parts and assembly variation of <MOUNT MID FEED DRIVE>(No.3) and <VERTICAL CONVEYING
UNIT>, <MOUNT MID FEED DRIVE>(No.3) and <VERTICAL CONVEYING GEAR>(B) contact each other, and
there is a possibility that the abnormal sound is heard. Therefore, the change is made as follows. Moreover please
be aware that due to this change, the new and old parts will be no compatible with each other to attach when
replacing.SB-7610 modif syncro Middle Feed Unit Abnormal Sound.pdf

[subaro]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

Then I replaced the PFM: Success! It sounded liked a new printer, very quiet and smooth

Yes, there is a bulletin for that issue.

Here is a fix without parts and quite easy.

open left door and open duplex assy. power on and while pressing the interlock sw at the left side, listen for the noise. if noise exist, move the middle feed assy to the right and the noise should be gone. if so then you will have to shim the the top of the vertical feed assy with a thin piece of plasitc or metal. where to shim, you will have to put a flat head screwdriver and play around untill to figure out what is happening.

IF on the other hand when you press the interlock switch and no noise is heard, close the duplex unit and press the sw again. if the noise is heard, then look at metal bracket on the left side of the duplex unit and move it the the right, the noise will be competely gone. Next is the bend the bottom of the bracket where the string of gears are on the duplex unit to the right untill you actually see it bent, then press the interlock switch again and abracadabra noise is gone 90 percent, sometimes 100 percent.

In your case you should clean the gears and lube with suitable grease for plastic gears.

Even the TA 420i coming back from service has the noise, but not as much as the fal 2 and 3 and the problems were supposed to be solved with these with factory fixes.

Anyway let us know ...

[PCL]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

I didn't actually get a chance to work on this machine again until this evening. Finding a maintenance window can be difficult. This machine has 2.5 million pages on it, if that tells you anything.

I thought for sure that service bulletin 7610 was the issue. I removed the middle drive, the noise went away, and I starting messing with the gears of the vertical feed checking for play and looking to see if I could add a c-clip without pulling the vertical feed.

Then I realized that the gears were just laying there. There is supposed to be a spring under them. (Spring Feed Joint 2FG06070)

The missing spring was probably causing sloppy gear engagement, which was probably causing the noise.

Further examination found that a piece of the vertical feed frame was broken. The part that was broken off normally holds the gears down. With nothing to hold the gears down, the spring (that should be under them) will not stay in place.

So, I had the fun of swapping out the vertical feed with one from spares.

I am a little unhappy with our normal Kyocera guy. This printer has been noisy for a couple of years and he kept blowing it off as an unsolvable mystery.

Mystery solved. The printer sounds almost like a new machine.

[blackcat4866]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

The FalconIII's do the same. In my experience, if you get a cracked transfer bushing the transfer roller can drop out in the vertical path. An aggressive customer can do a lot of damage by repeatedly slamming the door on the transfer roller. =^..^=

[subaro]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

I am a little unhappy with our normal Kyocera guy.

Please don't have that feeling towards the kyocera tech, becasue its not him alone who has been stumped by this noise problem. I posted a fix in this thread that i have done numerous time, and which i spent quite a bit of time on my own to solve this mystery. Then the supervisors really don't want the problem totally fixed as when the machine goes out quiet on the field the customer on hearing anything otherwise place service calls for noise and this causes problems for the techs which they can't solve. Your machine with 2.5k need a rebuild, lube bushings ect.
Believe me, sometime in the near months the noise will resurface. this is the nature of this machine and i have never heard anyone for a fix for that noise.

even kyocera parts update fix does not always eliminate this noise.

[PCL]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

The reason I am unhappy with him is that if he had just pulled the middle feed out, and actually stuck his finger on the gears in the Joint Feed Drive, it would have been obvious that the spring was missing.

All of our Falcon II's make noise. This particular one was so bad that it was nearly intolerable for people in the cubes and surrounding offices.

I do appreciate everyone's help though - thanks a bunch.

A funny side note, people in that part of the office thought the printer wasn't working because they would print and not hear the racket.

[kjg]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

Sorry I didn't get to reply sooner.
This fix applies to falcon 2,3, and Ta 420,520i.
I have a fix that I use to quiet these down. It works most of the time. I have found the noise to be caused over time by the
Duplex Drive holder cutting a small groove in the Middle Feed Assembly housing. Try placing a small bit of mylar over the groove
and see if the noise goes away. The best Mylar to use is the type you get in the pm kit for these machines( you may have some laying around).
If it has gone long enough, however, the only fix left is to replace the middle feed assembly and possibly the vertical conveying housing.
I have fixed hundreds of these in the field with this low tech fix and it works.

remove the middle feed assembly and clean the area real good with alcohol or even a de-greaser to get best adhesion for the mylar.
In my photos I used a white mylar material just to have it show better.

I hope others can use this fix for noisy Falcons and 420,520i's.

photo 1.JPGphoto 2.JPGphoto 3.JPG

There are other noises from this area that this wont fix. Other techs have posted good info in this thread covering these points.

[habik]

Re: KM-4035 Noise when PFM running

Sorry I didn't get to reply sooner.
This fix applies to falcon 2,3, and Ta 420,520i.
I have a fix that I use to quiet these down. It works most of the time. I have found the noise to be caused over time by the
Duplex Drive holder cutting a small groove in the Middle Feed Assembly housing. Try placing a small bit of mylar over the groove
and see if the noise goes away. The best Mylar to use is the type you get in the pm kit for these machines( you may have some laying around).
If it has gone long enough, however, the only fix left is to replace the middle feed assembly and possibly the vertical conveying housing.
I have fixed hundreds of these in the field with this low tech fix and it works.

remove the middle feed assembly and clean the area real good with alcohol or even a de-greaser to get best adhesion for the mylar.
In my photos I used a white mylar material just to have it show better.

I hope others can use this fix for noisy Falcons and 420,520i's.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28611[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]28612[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]28613[/ATTACH]

There are other noises from this area that this wont fix. Other techs have posted good info in this thread covering these points.

Nice one

My fix was to drill a 1mm hole on the duplex ass'y where the coupling frame meets the plastic. Put a spring in and the pull had probably offset the grove you pointing out. Did not notice the grove so credit and kudos to you!
Cheers!



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