Outlet Voltage ( High, Low, or Fluctuating Voltages )

[Claudio]

Hello Everyone:
I have more than ever, had issues where a customer's outlet voltage is either too low, too high, and/or fluctuating.
The weirdest one I've seen a few years ago is a Minolta EP-9760 jamming. It turned out that the drum was turning in the wrong direction. It was not on a dedicated 20amp line and the voltage was fluctuating 112v~117v. When the copier would be unplugged and replugged, the copier would work ok for a few days.
I've been doing this copier thing since 86' and I've had more of a mechanical mind, not as much electrical. Throughout the years, because of various service calls I've come to conclude anything below 117v is not good. Even if the voltage is 117v or above, but fluctuates below 117v can eventually be a problem. The machine may run good for up to a year, but eventually the voltage will cause the copier to crap out in any number of ways. I've had customers install dedicated lines for low voltage and after doing so, then ended up with 122v or higher (I've seen up to 127v). I heard from a board repair company that higher voltage is better than low voltage. Many customers don't believe me or they just don't take it seriously when I try to tell them their voltage is going to be an issue down the road if it is not corrected by an electrician. I've tried voltage regulators for low voltage and they don't work. They just bump up the volatage for a couple of seconds then drops back down for a few seconds. When the voltage is bumped up it makes a clicking noise which can annoy the customer. I have not tried a voltage regulator on high voltage to see if it filters out excess voltage.
I have a few questions I would like to know for 120v, 15amp copiers - 20amp copier oviously need dedicated lines:
1 ) At what voltage do you consider it low voltage?
2 ) At what voltage do you consider it high voltage?
3 ) Does anyone know if a voltage regulator will filter out excess voltage?
4 ) On fluctuating voltage, how much fluctuatin do you think is ok?
5 ) How much noise on Ground do you think is acceptable?
6 ) Does anyone have any literature (short and generalized) that explains some of these questions I have?
8 ) Which type of surge suppressors do you recommend and why?
7 ) Does anyone recommend plugging these new copiers in those UPS Battery voltage back-ups?
8 ) Also any personal experiences with voltage issues?
I would like to read your responses, since what I know is only from personal experience and not necessarily fact. Your responsess will only add to the facts list of voltage issues and I'm sure will be usefull for a lot of us that use this forum.
Thanks in advance.
Claudio

[OMD-227]

Get yourself a Dranetz machine.

http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/kyocera-mita-copystar/28212-oscilloscopes-frequency-generators-rf-generators.html

This will prove once and for all that the problem IS the power supply to the machine. Then you have overwhelming proof that the problem is the clients power supply, not your copier causing the problems. Its up to them to get it checked out. Otherwise, they will have problems with the machine. They are designed for a stable power supply, not a fluctuating one.

The Dranetz will prove everything you need.

Nevere put a copier on a UPS Backup device, but might be worth a shot. I'd only get a bigger one, like a 'Sola' branded one.

Otherwise, read the post included above, as I detailed in it a few problems I've had in the past with fluctuating power.

[blackcat4866]

Most manufacturers use the same specs: 120VAC +/- 10%

That's 108 to 132VAC. But that's not the whole story. Ground to neutral must be less than 0.5VAC.

I remember a service call on a Mita DC-4055, ~15 years ago. The customer had lost electrical service, and was attempting to run the entire building off a portable generator. The resulting power to the Mita was 89VAC, and miraculously it worked just fine other than the fact that LTR-R images were over 17" long. I think the main motor was expecting a little more juice. This was a bare bones analog. Digital copiers are not so tolerant.

In real life, on digital equipment, momentary spikes or sags of 15% can cause MFPs to drop network connection, jam, and pull error codes. I have documented spikes over 400VAC before the surge suppressor. The only way to properly document these situations is to set up a power quality analyzer for a few days. =^..^=

[OMD-227]

The only way to properly document these situations is to set up a power quality analyzer for a few days.

Trust me, it works.
Thats exactly what I said. If you can prove its the power, not the copier, let them keep having issues until the power issue is fixed. Not your problem. Thats how we see it anyways.

[davidj7]

ive plugged in copier to UPS works fine. No issues .using Canon 3300's . for bigger machines UPS dosent justify the cost for me.

[Claudio]

Thanks for your info. regarding the voltage monitoring devices. They seem to be very expensive.

[blackcat4866]

Our company rents then from a place in California. If I remember correctly, the last time was $75 for 30 days rental (includes shipping time both ways). I like the Fluke personally. The software is really easy to figure out for a technologically challenged individual, like me. =^..^=

[OMD-227]

We purchased the Dranetz outright, and it gets shipped around Australia on a regular basis, for wherever it is needed. It is worth the expense, as it has saved our butts so many times.

[n25an]

power line monitor

Our company rents then from a place in California. If I remember correctly, the last time was $75 for 30 days rental (includes shipping time both ways). I like the Fluke personally. The software is really easy to figure out for a technologically challenged individual, like me. =^..^=

Whats the name of that company and whats the model that you rent???

[n25an]

dranetz

We purchased the Dranetz outright, and it gets shipped around Australia on a regular basis, for wherever it is needed. It is worth the expense, as it has saved our butts so many times.

whats the model??

[blackcat4866]

It's Advanced Test Equipment:
Advanced Test Equipment Rentals - Complete Test Equipment Rental Solutions

The Fluke 101S is the one I used. The great feature about it is that it can record up to 4000 events, and the software produces nice concise reports. One drawback is that it needs a serial connection to your PC. I had to buy an adapter from USB. Most laptops don't have serial or parallel ports any more.
Fluke VR101S Voltage Event Recorder System - Advanced Test Equipment Rentals

Have fun. =^..^=

[OMD-227]

My advice would be to get any Dranetz device that records onto a roll of paper internally. No serial cables, no extra plugs or wires.... just plug it into the power, plug the copier into the Dranetz, and wait for the results. The print out (like a cash-register roll) records everything that happens with the power. On our machine you can set it to only record actual events, or print a graph of what is happening at all times.
Although Blackcats device would be fine, the idea of serial cables and software to drive it sounds prehistoric. Our Dranetz isn't new, by any means. It looks older than me, but it definitely works.
Pay the extra money and get a Dranetz. It has saved us many times, actual printed proof that there is a problem with the clients power supply. Can't argue with that.
As Blackcat has said previously, digital machines dont like unstable power supplies. A Drantetz will prove it. Then its not your problem anymore.

Pretty easy with a Dranetz. These guys should pay me for the name drops. Cash for comment specialist.

[n25an]

question on voltage meter

Most manufacturers use the same specs: 120VAC +/- 10%

That's 108 to 132VAC. But that's not the whole story. Ground to neutral must be less than 0.5VAC.

I remember a service call on a Mita DC-4055, ~15 years ago. The customer had lost electrical service, and was attempting to run the entire building off a portable generator. The resulting power to the Mita was 89VAC, and miraculously it worked just fine other than the fact that LTR-R images were over 17" long. I think the main motor was expecting a little more juice. This was a bare bones analog. Digital copiers are not so tolerant.

In real life, on digital equipment, momentary spikes or sags of 15% can cause MFPs to drop network connection, jam, and pull error codes. I have documented spikes over 400VAC before the surge suppressor. The only way to properly document these situations is to set up a power quality analyzer for a few days. =^..^=

when I run my voltmeter between ground and neutral on an outlet... I get 5 VAC one way and 118 VAC when I switch... I know the 5 VAC is bad but my question is... Is it normal for the Voltmeter to react like this... when leads are connected one way... it reads a short and the other way it reads an open... ???

[blackcat4866]

It sounds like you've got a floating ground. Simply, the ground prong is open to the circuit box, but occasionally some grounding results from another draw on the circuit.

You can get some truly strange results. Anything over 0.5VAC ground to neutral is unacceptable, so there's no doubt you've got a serious power issue.

[davidj7]

agrees with blackcat 100%