If i take down someones network what are the penalties in Australia.

[xcopy]

Should copier technicians be able to do network or it service calls.

[RRodgers]

I do IT work all the time. I will say this, if you DO NOT know what you are doing, this is probably an area you shouldn't touch. At least not in a customers office. This could look VERY bad on the company. Just don't do it. I doubt you'll fry something, but.. you might take something offline that really needs to be online all the time. (ie server) If you wanna learn, do it in your office with your IT guy. If he's not forthcoming... break something and watch over his shoulder as he fixes it. (j/k)

[mrwho]

I personally avoid messing with servers at all costs. A server usually has sensitive and/or important data, and if anything happens - even if you're not at fault - usually the blame goes to you.

To someone who doesn't know IT, you're to blame for the loss of all the data on the server, even if all you did was add a printer driver or configure a scanning destination.

Not worth the risk, IMHO.

[KenB]

While the customer may not come after you personally, dealerships have a very definite liability exposure in this area.

Somewhere around 1997 or 1998, we were once accused of taking a customer's Internet connection down, and it took a day for their "farmed out" IT guy to get there to restore it.

The customer claimed that since most of their income was Internet based (something to do with securities), that we owed him roughly $7,000 for a lost day's work.

We ended up giving him all kinds of discounts instead, along with a lot of promises and guarantees.

Rumor had it that if he had insisted on payment, that he probably would have gotten it if he pursued it enough, as we would have spent more than $7,000 in legal fees alone, and most likely would have lost.

[anothertech]

I do network installs all the time and in a lot of offices there is no IT person. You have a choice whether to have them hire out for an IT guy or just go ahead and do it yourself. I just do it, it's more fun than fixing some old dirty copier.

Like RRodgers said, if you're not sure what your doing, practice on the network in your office.
If the boss won't let you touch the office network, they can't really expect you to do anything on the customers network.

[KenB]

I do network installs all the time and in a lot of offices there is no IT person. You have a choice whether to have them hire out for an IT guy or just go ahead and do it yourself. I just do it, it's more fun than fixing some old dirty copier.

Like RRodgers said, if you're not sure what your doing, practice on the network in your office.
If the boss won't let you touch the office network, they can't really expect you to do anything on the customers network.

Good point on the no IT staff.

With the economy being what it is, I see more and more customers who have no IT at all. They may or may not have someone who they use on a per call chargeable basis. Time was when everybody had an IT staff, or at least someone they dealt with on at least a weekly basis. Those days are gone, along with the glory days when an IT professional could name his price - almost literally.

That's what makes our jobs tougher when it comes to connecting our devices. We need to go in just deep enough to make our stuff work, yet not break the customer's network.

Further complicating matters is that machines now integrate more with the networks, with enhanced security capabilities, LDAP integration, and the like.

Copier dealership management should be aware of this, and I'm sure that 99% of them are. They should know that attempting an install without the proper training and preparation can spell disaster.

As already mentioned in this thread, the key is to practice, practice, practice. While most all of my techs have been trained, the single biggest complaint I hear is "I don't do this often enough to be good at it." The more that they get to ride with an experienced tech the more different network environments they will see, and be better versed when out in the field on their own. I've had a few guys get really good in doing setups in the demo or training room, but don't do so hot in the customer's office.

[rh112]

As mrwho said even if you do nothing wrong and something happens then you get the blame
You can do something as simple as add a printer to a stand alone computer but if that computer has any problems after you finish then customer will say what did you do to my computer it was working fine until you touched it
I had this happen several years ago took forever for customer to confess that the computer had been having issue before the printer was added
I have been doing this for 30 years and as Paul Harvey said "and now for the rest of the story"
Which is what we never seem to get anymore from the customer

[TheOwl]

I am an IT / Copier Tech and I deal with both situations all the time and there are two trains of thought on this.

1. If the network is that important, they will have an IT person that will install drivers and get everything going with the advise of the copier tech. If they can't be bothered doing so and get the copier tech to install the drivers, they are running the risk of a network failure. If a new copier is install in one of my IT based sites (wheather it be one of our copiers or another manufacturer) then I make sure that I install the drivers, setup scanning etc. If I stuff it up, then it's my fault and I have to fix it. If a server crashes while a copier tech is installing drivers, then I didn't do my job properly. I know first hand that IT people love to shift the blame because they can be really really lazy.

2. If your client doesn't have an IT person (in house or out sourced) then just let them know straight up that problems can sometimes occur when installing driver etc and that if it happens, then you can't be put to blame. If the client doesn't like that, then suggest they get an IT person to do the work for them. 98% or all problems when copier techs service a network is pure coincidence any way and the other 2% can usually be put down to a bad driver disk which would have the same effect if the IT person put into the server. Again, as other have al ready said though, if you don't know what you are doing, then don't do it. It's the same with photocopiers that we service and maintain. If we don't know what we are doing on them, then we don't touch them.

Well, that's my 2 cents worth anyway. lol

[KenB]

I think a lot of undue pressure is put on techs to be a "do it all" guy (or gal!) by salesreps setting unrealistic expectations of just what the service department can do.

"Don't worry Mister Customer, DOS, AS400, Oracle, SAP, UNIX, no problem... they see this stuff every day!"

No pressure there!!

[rickg]

why not get a wavier signed before doing any work. This way you are not liable if their system goes down.

[Ducttape n Glue]

I'm old enough to remember when we had the first /HPCanons something like LS or LPT( my memory is gone) something or something printer engines in 1984 and we would go out on a service call and say well its not the hardware so it must be the software or the computer and then the customer would call the software guy and he would say its the computer and the computer guy would come out and say it was the software and the printer, well you get the idea, nobody back then did it all and the customers had to pay everyone or in some cases no one cus it was the fault of the something else so they did'nt want to pay for the call.
There was also what I think was called Errors and Omissions Insurance or some other liability insurance that the dealership added to their policy and that was suppose to cover them/ tech in just this very case, if you brought down a customers website or any other IT related issue they may have caused.
Our neighbor has an online retail store that does 3/4 of a million a year in business and his provider went down for 2 days and they blamed a tech doing work at the server. Well 3/4 of a million divided by 365 days x 2 = $4,109.58 on average and their insurance paid.
Recomendation: Buy the insurance if your a dealership that plays with the customers IT stuff. It should be part of your standard liability insurance policy, check.

[emujo]

I think the IT side is the absolute best possible facet of todays copier tech. With a little knowlege you can be very dangerous, but a well trained tech can look like a f***ing wizard and may account for the customers decision to add/replace their MFPs when the time comes. I personally think that 90% of the knowlege you need comes from OJT and that A+ cert you have is only to give you the basics. Most IT departments have little knowledge on exactly how a perphial must be set up to print/scan ect..and will rely on the tech to get things running smoothly. My best advice is to jump in and get your hands dirty, use these forums to ask questions and get answers to questions you know the customer will ask. Setting up a scan/print solution for a customer running the latest server may be daunting, but after a few times it becomes fairly simple. As long as we have techs that are afraid to work on the print/scan end of the MFP, I'm sure I will have a job. Emujo

[Ducttape n Glue]

I think the IT side is the absolute best possible facet of todays copier tech. With a little knowlege you can be very dangerous, but a well trained tech can look like a f***ing wizard and may account for the customers decision to add/replace their MFPs when the time comes. I personally think that 90% of the knowlege you need comes from OJT and that A+ cert you have is only to give you the basics. Most IT departments have little knowledge on exactly how a perphial must be set up to print/scan ect..and will rely on the tech to get things running smoothly. My best advice is to jump in and get your hands dirty, use these forums to ask questions and get answers to questions you know the customer will ask. Setting up a scan/print solution for a customer running the latest server may be daunting, but after a few times it becomes fairly simple. As long as we have techs that are afraid to work on the print/scan end of the MFP, I'm sure I will have a job. Emujo

I wholeheartedly agree. When my IT guy goes out and does an install and networks the customers printer , we look like heroes. We have gone in and saved clients from their own outsourced IT people who can screw things up just as well as the next guy, or they usually try and make it so complicated that the customer has to have them involved for every little change or add on.
Another thing, many of the younger techs grew up with this stuff and can whip around it like nothing. It's some of us older folks who really didn't keep ourselves up to date who suffer if we have to do it ourselves.
Don't let yourself fall behind the technology.

[fixthecopier]

I wish I knew more about the IT side. I pick up bits from my IT people, and will do stuff for them with phone support.. Just yesterday, I rebuilt someones fuser, they called back an hour later to say they could not print since I worked on it. I went back to check the basics, then told them I would send an IT guy next morn. The main thing that limits me is that my main customer is not allowed to print to my copiers, so I have few IT problems to solve. My belief is that the more you know, the more power you have.

[mrwho]

My belief is that the more you know, the more power you have.

Right on the nail you hit, my friend.

[/yoda]