mp3500 grey back ground

**Shadow1** · 10-16-2008, 10:53 PM

Good Luck - this machine is the biggest P.O.S.

Adjust all the SP codes in the bulletins - this will cause the machine to lower the toner concentration as it does process control. Replace the developer assy.

You've done all that. It helps slightly, but you may start getting light images.

The toner formula is the problem - it adheres to the mag roller and doc blade, the machine overtones and pukes all over itself. Ricoh states altering the SP codes is the final fix - even though we have shown over and over that it doesn't work. There was discussion on annother thread about loading the B003 toner and developer into this machine and the 40/50 cpm machines in the next generation (they have the same problem) but they are still testing to see if it works. Results are encouraging, but there are some updates and more SP changes that have to be done, and you have to make sure the customer gets shipped the "right" toner...

**CableGuy** · 10-16-2008, 11:02 PM

Oh yes

I agree with you there. From the first version of this model, it's gone from bad to worse!! It is as you say, the machine is overtoning, but the copy quality is not good after the adjustments. It's gonna get expensive to go change the dev every other week. I really hope they give up with this engine soon. It's a lost cause. I'll keep digging to see if anyone can give me any hope. I'll be calling the techspec in the morning for some words of wisdom...I hope

**Shadow1** · 10-17-2008, 06:12 AM

I hired on with Lanier back when Harris/3M still owned them, it's late, and I'm lazy so I'm going to use the Lanier model numbers / generation number in this post and apologize in advance.

The 1st generation of this engine would also puke on itself no matter what you did to it, but didn't have the backgrounding issue as bad (That would be the 5235/5245)

The 2nd Generation would only barf if you pushed them harder than about 20k/month, and the backgrounding was still there, but generally lighter and grainy which made it somehow less annoying. (Gen 2 was the Lanier 5435/5445)

The 3rd Generation (5635/5645) ran great. No backgrounding, no toner explosions, and a much better control panel. Occasionally I would see buildup on the mag roller, but usually only on the ends, and the customer was probably doing something extreme. (or needed to upgrade)

Gen 4 (LD035/LD045) had some more problems with toner control, but generally ran 200k on a PM

Generation 5 (LD135/LD145) was nearly as reliable after you installed the firmware update to control the overtoning, and worked out the cold offset kinks if the machine wasn't in a perfect envronment. (are we sensing a theme here)

Gen 6 (LD235/LD245) started going downhill. The fuser had been a pain in the 'nads to work on ever since they went to 2 heat lamps and those ultra fragile thermistors, but I seem to have lots more problems with these, and that second drum blade goes straight into the trash and stays there - not new to this model, but somehow more problematic

Gen 7 (LD335/LD345) - well, you know about this turd.

Gen 8 (LD040/LD050) - Change a fusing web yet? The engineer should be arrested and sentenced to work on his own product. The machine has the same backgrounding problems as the Gen7 machine. It also has the same weak stomach, but at least the new PCU design holds some of it in when it decides to barf.

Appearently the engineers decided to add raw molasses to the toner for these last 2 machines - I've never seen anything gum up a developer assy like that.

All the other toner problems could have been solved by a very simple change to the machine - Add a drum potential sensor. Process control alters the toner concentration to maintain copy quality, it also develops a patch on the drum to set charge voltage, the patch density depends in part on the toner concentration... around and around we go. I had a bad TD sensor in one of these machines, and discovered that it NEVER gets checked except during recovery from a toner end condition. Who designs this stuff?

I strongly suspect the overtoning on these latest designs is caused by the buildup, not the other way around like Ricoh seems to think - The buildup would narrow the doc blade gap and cause weak patches during process control throwing the charge voltage and toner calculations both off, and around we go again, so a potential sensor would help here too, for a while anyway.

**Scott_Lewis** · 10-17-2008, 07:49 AM

I've got about 50 of these that were installed 7 months ago. I've had 3 or 4 that gave me CQ issues. One or two of them I swapped out the developer unit, one of them I followed the bulletin, always cleaned the mag roller when needed. Haven't had a single CQ incident for the past 51/2 to 6 months. Just got to get over the hump.

**CableGuy** · 10-17-2008, 11:24 AM

Holding thumbs

I had a chat with Tech-support this moning. They have pointed of a few things to try, which I wil do as soon as receive a fresh batch of toner. I will post what I carried out and follow up results as soon as I've determined it they work or not. Thanks for your input. Great post Shadow1...It's not a very popular model at all. Cheers

**cobiray** · 10-17-2008, 05:57 PM

One of the other things I've been told to check is the ground from the drum shaft to the frame. I think the magic number was 50 ohms or less. Apparently some of the bearings don't have/loose conductivity. I know this won't fix toner fusing to the mag roller, but if it helps...

**CableGuy** · 10-17-2008, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by cobiray

One of the other things I've been told to check is the ground from the drum shaft to the frame. I think the magic number was 50 ohms or less. Apparently some of the bearings don't have/loose conductivity. I know this won't fix toner fusing to the mag roller, but if it helps...

Thanks Cobiray, I need all the ammo I can get to use on this problem. As I say, once I've tried what they've told me to do, I'll share it if it does the trick. If it don't work, there's always room for plan B. Thanks

**Shadow1** · 10-17-2008, 08:38 PM

Had drum ground problems with some of the Generation 3 machines - the backgrounding looked very similar, but the solids were also weak not so bold the copy looks thermographed. I guess it was a bad run of parts, because it was pretty common for a while, but completely random. It's a decent bit of digging to get the drum shaft and bearing assembly out, and the replacement sometimes had problems as well, so I started pulling bearings, removing the seals and flushing the grease out with alcohol then replacing it with conductive grease, and smearing a little on the drum shaft too - never had a problem again on a machine I treated. Conductive grease part number is: G0049668 - I haven't ordered any in a while, but it should still be available.

Check the drum ground again and rotate it as you check - sometimes the connection gets noizy. If you read anything more than 5 or 10 ohms "update" it.

**RebelPhoenix** · 10-18-2008, 12:15 AM

I'm thinking the Ricoh AF1045, AF2045, AF3045, MP4500 series is badder than other models. This series not work the good. All times have the problem. Pour the toner in copier after scanner unit glass and polygon scanner. I don't like the 45 ppm machine but. AF1515 I have this copier. And Counter is 450k it's running is very good. 15,75 ppm is good Mp1350 is good but when will it show the SC code is This monster eat the very time.

**CableGuy** · 11-05-2008, 05:35 PM

same-o same-o

Thought I'd just bring you all up to date with the goings-on regarding this machine. I went out and basically cleaned out the machine again, de-toned it and then toned it up to a good level with a new toner bottle. Then reset the engine software to get it to forget the previous toner level settings. Even after this, the copy quaulity was really crap. There was a slight background still and the solid was anything but..... The customer agreed to leave it for a few days to see if it settled down. A week later the customer called to say it ws puking it's toner everywhere again and the CQ was rubbish and the background even worse....
So I have a 'tech-spec' coming out to have a look. Will let you know if he has any results...Cheers

**msaeger** · 11-06-2008, 05:05 AM

The problem is toner sticking to the mag roller. I figure it's because of the energy saving lower melting point toner. I don't know what a fix would be besides different toner and developer. I haven't really had too many do it but I hear many other techs complaining.

Yeah the web on the MP4000 is a joke. Why did they even need a web and if they felt the need for one why make it this hard to replace. Lucky for me the MPC4500 seems to be selling more than the B&W MP4000.

**CableGuy** · 11-06-2008, 08:40 AM

Thanks Msaeger, You are correct. But that I took care of on my first visit, coz it was balck end to end. On my last visit i checked again and was surprised to find that the roller was as clean as a whistle. That sort of stumped me, coz I half expected it to be the same again. So the Dev unit is clean, including the mag roller. It has brand new dev in it, but still I am getting to two opposites.....Bad CQ and heavy back ground. Keeping in mind the machine only has about 120k on it and new dev.....
I just hope this 'Tech-spec' can sort it. Think the customer is on the verge of kicking up about it, they have been very patient with it so far.... Will let you know if any more comes to light.

**msaeger** · 11-06-2008, 02:07 PM

Sure they didn't put the wrong toner in it at one time ? I have had that happen many times. On one after they did it I had to replace the pcu, transfer unit, dev unit, and toner hopper to fix it. I tried just cleaning it out and replacing the developer but it kept coming back.

**CableGuy** · 11-06-2008, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by msaeger

Sure they didn't put the wrong toner in it at one time ? I have had that happen many times. On one after they did it I had to replace the pcu, transfer unit, dev unit, and toner hopper to fix it. I tried just cleaning it out and replacing the developer but it kept coming back.

That could be a possibility, I'll have to look back in the records to see if I can pick anything up. Thanks for that one....

mp3500 grey back ground

mp3500 grey back ground

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