Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

[Guest]

I am reaching out for our church. In short, I believe the service tech company is taking advantage of the church.
In short, they are saying we are printing astronomical numbers of copies when there is almost no way this could be happening.

The printer copy number are registering what we are being charged. Sometimes 200 color copies a day.

I was thinking they may have set us up for a click count, but before I could check today, they sent out a service tech to
"mess" with the printer.

Is there anyway to access a hidden page count or click count? We pay per page.

They have us printing over 1000 color copies a month and 3000 b & w a month. Other than someone sneaking in and running
copies, it just doesn't seem possible.

Any help would be appreciated.

[copyaction]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

Set up user codes and at the end of the month you can see exactly how many pages each user printed.
in addition you can access user tools/ counter any day you like and print out a page with the date and current meter readings.
very easy for you to keep track of this.

[zed255]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

The meter reads on Ricoh devices can't be modified.

The devices does however come from the factory set to click on 'developments' and not pages, so one needs to look at the counter under 'User Tools / Counter' and ensure it is not indicating in developments. If it is clicking in developments then the click rate will be much higher than it would be in pages. This can be changed in the machines service mode by the technician.

Should your service company actually be scamming you then look for a new service provider.

[sturmtrooper]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

The meter reads on Ricoh devices can't be modified.

The devices does however come from the factory set to click on 'developments' and not pages, so one needs to look at the counter under 'User Tools / Counter' and ensure it is not indicating in developments. If it is clicking in developments then the click rate will be much higher than it would be in pages. This can be changed in the machines service mode by the technician.

Should your service company actually be scamming you then look for a new service provider.

Starting with the C3002 the default is prints not developments. The service manual for the C3003 states that it's default is prints. Additionally the meter sheet would say developments if it was set to development count and not print count. While it can be changed in SP mode it can only be changed ONCE.

I am reaching out for our church. In short, I believe the service tech company is taking advantage of the church.
In short, they are saying we are printing astronomical numbers of copies when there is almost no way this could be happening.

The printer copy number are registering what we are being charged. Sometimes 200 color copies a day.

I was thinking they may have set us up for a click count, but before I could check today, they sent out a service tech to
"mess" with the printer.

Is there anyway to access a hidden page count or click count? We pay per page.

They have us printing over 1000 color copies a month and 3000 b & w a month. Other than someone sneaking in and running
copies, it just doesn't seem possible.

Any help would be appreciated.

There is no way to change the meter upward. The machines internal counter is the same as what the machine prints out from the user tools menu.

Some things to keep in mind: If you PRINT from your computer and the printer driver is set to color instead of black and white you will be charge a color click regardless of the actual color content of the page. I believe the default setting in the driver is color and not black and white. If you COPY at the machine and the machine is set to full color you will be charged a color click regardless of the color content of the page. If the machine is set to auto color select and you make a copy of something and there is color on the page, even if it's just a small amount the machine will likely detect it and print in color and you will be charged a color click. Any time paper comes out of the machine you will be charged a click for it. The only exceptions are paper that jammed before exiting, counter sheets, and prints from technician service mode.

As someone else suggested you should enable user code restrictions on the machine and give each person using it their own code. You can use this to restrict who can print in color as well if you'd like. You can also use this to prevent anyone from PRINTING to the machine unless a user code has been programmed into the printer driver. This should tell you who or what is making so many copies/prints. How to do this is described in the user manual which is also available on ricohs website. It isn't hard to enable but if you have trouble you can probably get your service company to help you with it.

You could also start printing counter sheets at the end of every day and that would help you determine what days are having high usage.

You may well find that someone is printing off a bunch of personal things on the church printer.

[tonerhead]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

Agree with Zed, it might be set for developments. If you go to user tools, counter and print out a count page see if it says developments. A few of those left Japan that way, or if it is used, previous owner may have requested paying by developments. Also, lots of church bulletins are run on 11x17 (ledger) paper. Each side of those counts as 2 copies, so if you are double siding (duplexing) this paper, that is 4 copies worth for each.

There is no "hidden" meters. It would be illegal and immoral to cheat this way and I doubt any business would want to try to do it. The best way to check is to print a counter sheet, make a color copy and print another counter sheet, color should increase by a count of 1, if it don't, call your vendor, and do the same in front of them. As was mentioned set up accounting codes. Most people don't realize that printing off 200 color Christmas pages cost the church around $12-15.

Honest mistakes do happen and every now and then they are set to developments, happens to us about 2xyr that we find one and correct the mistake.

Why would people pay by developments? Suppose you print a lot of emails, the links are cyan blue. Word docs have a lot of highlited yellow. It is a cheaper way of printing color if you only use one development for the color. That is a secret of the industry, not too many salesmen reveal this and not too many customers know it.

[teetime]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

[QUOTE=sturmtrooper;589712]Starting with the C3002 the default is prints not developments. The service manual for the C3003 states that it's default is prints. Additionally the meter sheet would say developments if it was set to development count and not print count. While it can be changed in SP mode it can only be changed ONCE.

This intrigues me. The count was normal for the longest time and then all of a sudden it too huge jumps (in sum, we had the printer for 4 years and it says we have done 55,000 color copies and 140,000 B&W. We are a very small church. Just yesterday the service tech did a surprise stop and was messing around with the counter. But didn't say anything was out of order. Problem is, he was supposed to schedule a visit, with me there. Therefore, a part of me is questioning whether he changed the counter from clicks to pages yesterday. Is there anyway to tell what changes are made?

[fshead]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

[QUOTE=teetime;589719]

Starting with the C3002 the default is prints not developments. The service manual for the C3003 states that it's default is prints. Additionally the meter sheet would say developments if it was set to development count and not print count. While it can be changed in SP mode it can only be changed ONCE.

This intrigues me. The count was normal for the longest time and then all of a sudden it too huge jumps (in sum, we had the printer for 4 years and it says we have done 55,000 color copies and 140,000 B&W. We are a very small church. Just yesterday the service tech did a surprise stop and was messing around with the counter. But didn't say anything was out of order. Problem is, he was supposed to schedule a visit, with me there. Therefore, a part of me is questioning whether he changed the counter from clicks to pages yesterday. Is there anyway to tell what changes are made?

Church or no church this guy already comes off as a TOOL,as he wants to think the tech is playing with the counters.
Unless the tech is the guy getting paid he has no interests in cheating the almighty Church,,
if you are that concerned why not ask the company,not here

[copyaction]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

By your numbers, 200 pages per day is not a lot of printing for a church.
As others have mentioned a 2 sided 11x17 would be 4 clicks right there.

[tonerhead]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

Quote: This intrigues me. The count was normal for the longest time and then all of a sudden it too huge jumps


I'm guessing the "huge" jump occurred before the tech was there. So it probably means the elves in the church are running a lot of pages after hours or when no one is looking. I've been in the repair business for 28 years now and have seen this occur 2-3 times/year. People are running a side business using the employer's copier. It happens, and churches are not exempt from this. Have vendor enable accounting codes and move forward.

[tonerhead]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

I am also insulted that someone would think a tech would cheat a church. At least in our office, if a copier counter increases/decreases dramatically, the billing software flags it and we are sent out to get a meter reading to make sure customer did not transpose two numbers when reporting meters. That is probably all the tech was doing and you are putting blame on him. Shame on you take it up with his employer as mentioned.

[sturmtrooper]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

This intrigues me. The count was normal for the longest time and then all of a sudden it too huge jumps (in sum, we had the printer for 4 years and it says we have done 55,000 color copies and 140,000 B&W. We are a very small church. Just yesterday the service tech did a surprise stop and was messing around with the counter. But didn't say anything was out of order. Problem is, he was supposed to schedule a visit, with me there. Therefore, a part of me is questioning whether he changed the counter from clicks to pages yesterday. Is there anyway to tell what changes are made?

I don't believe there is any way to tell if the meter accounting method has been changed other than comparing a meter sheet from before the tech was there to after.

I THINK that if the machine is set to page count it will say page counter on the meter sheet and development counter on the meter sheet if it has been set to developments. I am not positive though. But I have seen meter sheets that said development on the one machine we have that is set to count by developments.

I still think that the biggest culprit will be someone using the machine off books for their own purposes.

[paulg]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

You have had some great advice here.


Firstly lock the copier/ printer down


1. There is the chance someone is making sneaky extra copies. We are all Techs on this site from all over the world and I have visited companies where everyone with physical access to the copier is earning mega money, police stations, Army camps, schools, charities and Places of various worship. They have all found that to control costs they need to lock the devices down. People will just be sneaky and make that extra copy or print often not with malicious intent just because it's convenient.


2. You will be able to see which user is making the most copies/prints and check their settings and how they use the MFP maybe its the way they set the device up as others have said if you have print or scan with even the slightest bit of colour you will get charged for colour and if its set to double-sided if you count the amount of paper used of course be prepared to double the number. MFP's like Computers many casual users will learn a process and use it every time even if not possibly suitable for their current print or copy job.


Emails and web pages with extra headers and footers and even word files where someone has left an extra blank page at the end will end up increasing your prints made.


3. Another benefit of pin codes and locked print is people have to release the print and see the number of pages and suddenly it dawns on them. It's seeing a figure written down makes them realise what they are about to process.


4. It makes people realise often in offices or other "work" environments how pointless the copy or print they are making is, a user will print or copy a page or pages out when they need a few details to complete an order or make a call when they could just write them down on a post-it or notebook.


5. locked print will stop a user if they accidentally print too many or didn't mean to press print but meant to print to pdf for example but default printer on their pc was the MFP, as it gives them an extra step to commit to actually printing.




In a nutshell I have seen many customers realise once prints/copies are accountable, somehow the issue of excess copies just fades away.

[slimslob]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

I had a customer who had a similar problem. It turned out the janitorial service was using the copier at night. One other thing to do is for a week or so print the counter sheet before leaving at the end of the day and again first thing the next morning. Compare the two.

[tonerhead]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

Slimbob: you are spot on. Seen that too. The "elves" only seem to come out at night. As was mentioned lock it down with access codes. A customer had a crew that came in on the weekends that is until the customer did what you told these guys to do. The meter always climbed a couple hundred each weekend when no one was in. Imagine that!!

On a funny side note, my wife did that once. Had an old hp inkjet and I put in a new oem cartridge from WallyWorld that morning. Eight hours later, I came home from work and wanted a print, the print started ok then faded to nothing. Bad new ink cartridge I thought, I was about ready to return to WallyLand and then I found out my wife printed 200 pages or so from a manual (she hates pdf's) used up all of the ink. Had to go to WallyUniverse anyway, not to return the "bad" cartridge but to buy more.

[blackcat4866]

Re: Hidden Page Count - HELP - MPC3003 - Are we being scammed - We are a church

I can't tell you how many times a small church has told me: "We couldn't possibly have done that many copies!!" but they actually did. Once you've got your department codes set up, most likely you will not see that increase, because the guilty party will understand that they are now accountable. and will get caught.

Go ahead and blame the servicing company if it makes you feel better, but service techs cannot arbitrarily change copy counts. It just can not be done. I am personally insulted by your accusations. =^..^=