Scan to folder problems evolving

[JayPaul]

Hi everyone,
I'm sure we all know that as windows 8, 8.1 and 10 coming out caused some hell with scanning to folder. Often it was easily cured by updating firmware on certain generation models. Pretty much every time I find something new that makes a scan to folder fail, I find the solution to it.
But last week I had 2 customers phone me and say nothing at all changed on their network or pc (yeh yeh sure) so I remote access their PC. Check the folder is ahred with 'everyone' and ready/write permissions, correct path, username and password. Set advanced network options so file sharing is on, network is discoverable and all that. Make sure firewalls and antiviruses are turned off but still... not working. I even check SMB option in windows features is ticked.
Both times they said 'I think windows did a big update the other day'.
Does anyone know if certain windows security updates have rolled out that could be causing this all of a sudden?
I hope to god this won't suddenly be some epidemic of updates that are so far un-cureable.
Machines are MPC 305 and MPC 3003 so firmware isn't brand new but definitely in the last 18 months they would have been updated.
I think both users had windows 10, or possibly one on 7 and one on 10
Thanks

[Phil B.]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

Hi everyone,
I'm sure we all know that as windows 8, 8.1 and 10 coming out caused some hell with scanning to folder. Often it was easily cured by updating firmware on certain generation models. Pretty much every time I find something new that makes a scan to folder fail, I find the solution to it.
But last week I had 2 customers phone me and say nothing at all changed on their network or pc (yeh yeh sure) so I remote access their PC. Check the folder is ahred with 'everyone' and ready/write permissions, correct path, username and password. Set advanced network options so file sharing is on, network is discoverable and all that. Make sure firewalls and antiviruses are turned off but still... not working. I even check SMB option in windows features is ticked.
Both times they said 'I think windows did a big update the other day'.
Does anyone know if certain windows security updates have rolled out that could be causing this all of a sudden?
I hope to god this won't suddenly be some epidemic of updates that are so far un-cureable.
Machines are MPC 305 and MPC 3003 so firmware isn't brand new but definitely in the last 18 months they would have been updated.
I think both users had windows 10, or possibly one on 7 and one on 10
Thanks

win 7 just blocked SM1 10 did a while back.. look for firmware updates to go to FTP scan

[JayPaul]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

Is that the only workaround now, moving to FTP after firmware update?
Do you know any more about this blocking of SMB by windows? because we could all suddenly be getting a hell of a lot of customers phoning up saying scanning has stopped working in the next few weeks (provided their updates are turned on constantly)

[jhalfhide]

[Methedor]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

Did some research. "Patch Lady" is reporting that "the issue is triggered if the user (Ricoh device) attempting to make the connection is an administrator on the machine (windows 7 computer) that hosts the shared folder. If the user (Ricoh) is JUST a USER (not administrator) on the device (computer) that hosts the share, the connection should be fine.

The solution appears to be to create a new user (not admistrator) with full control, read and write permissions and use those settings for folder authentication.

I just had 2 clients yesterday with this same issue, I will test the solution Monday, and report back.

There is another scanning issue thread below that had this. I've encountered recent scan issues myself. Due to the sporadic nature it would lend credence to the idea of a Windows update. I have make a non-administrative (Standard) account, given it Security (Full Control) permissions and Share permissions, then boom. Its solved the SMB scan issues for me so far.

back to the Windows Update issue there is also, This:

I realised most of you can't access the website if not in the UK.

Microsoft have released their January 'Monthly Roll-up':
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...date-kb4480970
..which contains important security updates. Unfortunately one of the included updates 'breaks' (read: increases security in an unproductive way) SMB2 shares.
Allegedly the following registry hack works around the 'problem'; documented here:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...cy-registry-se
Many users have claimed success with the hack. RUK TSG are not suggesting you make the registry change; altering HKEY /DWORD data is not without its risks so do so at your own risk.
You might instead consider rolling back the 'roll-up' until Microsoft have fixed the issue; they've received a lot of complaints apparently.
We have had problems reported from 4 customers already so this is just a heads up for you to be prepared if asked.

I have not looked into the links yet, but I hope this, both of these help you out.
Thanks to StephenB and Paulg for their insight.

[WildbillC]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

This is from Canon's website "Scan and Send to SMB Fails on Windows 7 SP1 and Server 2008 SP2 due to a Windows Security Patch (Windows 7 SP1 - KB4480970, Server 2008 SP2 - KB4480960) that breaks remote access to SMB Shares on Windows systems. This is resolved through the release of Microsoft patch update KB4487345 to fix the original patch update. Please use the link in the title of this alert to download and provide to your customers to resolve the Scan and Send to SMB failures the original security patches caused."

In Win 10 you need to enable support for SMB 1.0.

[Mark Bbb]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

scan to folder to PC ok, to lap top failed
threat from a few days ago, saying the same...

[mikadonovan]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

A customer recently bought 2 new HP Win 10 laptops, and although I got their win 10 desktops scanning with the help of Youtube, I never did get scanning to work on the laptops. SMB1 was enabled. Go figure. Most of the frustration I experience in the field is because of this friggin scanning method that is at the mercy of changes in the Microsoft products.

[Phil B.]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

Is that the only workaround now, moving to FTP after firmware update?
Do you know any more about this blocking of SMB by windows? because we could all suddenly be getting a hell of a lot of customers phoning up saying scanning has stopped working in the next few weeks (provided their updates are turned on constantly)

SMB1 is a portal into servers to spread viri and malware and ransomware.

DO NOT INIT SMB1... you could open yourself up for law suits

[Phil B.]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

This is from Canon's website "Scan and Send to SMB Fails on Windows 7 SP1 and Server 2008 SP2 due to a Windows Security Patch (Windows 7 SP1 - KB4480970, Server 2008 SP2 - KB4480960) that breaks remote access to SMB Shares on Windows systems. This is resolved through the release of Microsoft patch update KB4487345 to fix the original patch update. Please use the link in the title of this alert to download and provide to your customers to resolve the Scan and Send to SMB failures the original security patches caused."
In Win 10 you need to enable support for SMB 1.0.

NO do not enable SMB1 this is a RANSOMWARE pipeline. You could be in for lawsuits if th customers server gets infected.

[COPIERMAN]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

I had a couple of windows 7 stop due to Microsoft update. Microsoft fix problem but you had to manually go and get update from there catalog update or wait for there next update. With windows 8 and 10 i had to get firmware for smb2/3. Almost every time they do an update from Microsoft it would turn smb1 off.

[guitar9199]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

Ever since Vista (shudder), Micro$oft has blocked "Anonymous Browsing", which means even though you've checked "Everyone" in the folder share, it doesn't work quite the same as "everyone" did on XP. I always create a "Hidden" user just for the copier to access the computer. Include that name in the list, and make sure it's set for Read/Write, and give it FULL Control on the Security tab.

Something else to check is go into your Network and Sharing Center, and click on the connection/properties...select the IPv4 protocol and click on properties, then click the Advanced button...go to the WINS tab, and change from"NetBIOS over DHCP" to "NetBIOS over TCP/IP". SMB and DHCP don't play well together.

[rthonpm]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

Ever since Vista (shudder), Micro$oft has blocked "Anonymous Browsing", which means even though you've checked "Everyone" in the folder share, it doesn't work quite the same as "everyone" did on XP. I always create a "Hidden" user just for the copier to access the computer. Include that name in the list, and make sure it's set for Read/Write, and give it FULL Control on the Security tab.

Something else to check is go into your Network and Sharing Center, and click on the connection/properties...select the IPv4 protocol and click on properties, then click the Advanced button...go to the WINS tab, and change from"NetBIOS over DHCP" to "NetBIOS over TCP/IP". SMB and DHCP don't play well together.

WINS is a dead protocol at this point in any modern network. The issue with SMB and DHCP comes down to DNS. There are plenty of customers with SOHO wifi routers that they use for their internal DHCP and DNS. Scavenging (recovering and updating IP addresses of connected devices) is terrible on these, so even though COMPUTER1 registers its name locally, and gets an IP address from the router; if the user powers it down and comes back late to lunch and gets a new IP for the computer, according to DNS, COMPUTER1 is still at the old address. The second common DNS issue is techs setting the MFP to bypass the customer's network and use an external DNS server like 8.8.8.8. Always set the DNS server to the customer's internal one (even if it's just a wifi router), and unless they have a secondary DNS server, don't add another one.

In terms of SMB versions, there's no reason why SMB1 should ever be turned on at this point. It's a dying protocol that will be removed from Windows in a future version, and if a customer's equipment doesn't support it, it's a good way to get a little commission money by getting the customer to upgrade on the basis of security. As for NTFS permissions, the highest level of permissions any account needs to add files to a share is Modify. Never grant a standard user full control to a share since that allows them to change the security settings on the share or files in it, and I have seen customers muck with those to try and block others from seeing specific files.

In domain environments, have local IT create a service account with standard user permissions for MFP's to use to access shares. In local environments, a local user with standard rights is always going to go over a little easier, especially on a customer workstation.

[StephenB]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

I had this happen on 4 different clients, it was a result of a windows 7 security update.
You folder authentication on the Ricoh CANNOT be an administrator.

This corrected all 4 clients, create a new STANDARD user on the host (destination) computer with a user name and password.
Use this for your folder authentication.

[JayPaul]

Re: Scan to folder problems evolving

Thanks for all the feedback and information everyone, hopefully we have all picked up a new idea or two in here.
I will try some of these suggestions next time this problem is presented to me.
I hear Ricohs new line of machines are just coming out changing the standard MPC to IMC or something and can scan to dropbox and onedrive etc so I wonder what new troubles can come out of this