FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

[FrohnB]

Had a call yesterday on this model for Envelopes not feeding and Light print on the envelopes.
When I arrived, I tested one through the bypass, and it feeds until after the fuser, then goes into a "Jam" and drops into the purge zone by the waste toner.
Jam code was "J098 - Thickness Error". After some hunting I found SP 1-313 "Thickness Setting" and turned OFF this setting for Bypass. And Voila! Envelopes printed without jamming and the text was dark and legible.

Just wanted to throw this out there in case anybody runs into this. Was kind of an odd one.

Now a couple questions for you guys. First, What's up with that thickness setting and why did it prevent the envelopes from feeding? Second, Is there any way to get it to feed the envelopes flap side first/ long edge or flap side/ long edge to the right? Tried for over an hour to get it to print this way, but no matter how we set it up on computer and copier size settings, it would jam. The only way we could get it to feed was short edge first. The reason I ask is because with the short edge feed, 9 out of 10 envelopes have creases or the flap on trailing side is shifted and creased making the envelope look terrible. I tried all sorts of "Depressure - Envelopes" and "Slant correction - envelopes" and Nip band and thickness settings in SP mode to no avail. Is there something I'm missing that would put Less pressure on the envelopes?

Thanks in Advance.

[Phil B.]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

Had a call yesterday on this model for Envelopes not feeding and Light print on the envelopes.
When I arrived, I tested one through the bypass, and it feeds until after the fuser, then goes into a "Jam" and drops into the purge zone by the waste toner.
Jam code was "J098 - Thickness Error". After some hunting I found SP 1-313 "Thickness Setting" and turned OFF this setting for Bypass. And Voila! Envelopes printed without jamming and the text was dark and legible.

Just wanted to throw this out there in case anybody runs into this. Was kind of an odd one.

Now a couple questions for you guys. First, What's up with that thickness setting and why did it prevent the envelopes from feeding? Second, Is there any way to get it to feed the envelopes flap side first/ long edge or flap side/ long edge to the right? Tried for over an hour to get it to print this way, but no matter how we set it up on computer and copier size settings, it would jam. The only way we could get it to feed was short edge first. The reason I ask is because with the short edge feed, 9 out of 10 envelopes have creases or the flap on trailing side is shifted and creased making the envelope look terrible. I tried all sorts of "Depressure - Envelopes" and "Slant correction - envelopes" and Nip band and thickness settings in SP mode to no avail. Is there something I'm missing that would put Less pressure on the envelopes?

Thanks in Advance.

can't really speak on the main of your question (thickness issue) but in all 31+yrs... Envelopes have ALWAYS been the PIA in the industry. Wrinkles .. Skewing .. Feed Direction.

"Roll Folded" envelopes seem to ALWAYS crease wrinkle
"Flat or Press Fold" envelopes do better, but the cheaper ones have more problems

also it depends on "Short Grain/Long Grain" paper fibers can make a difference also.

funny story: had a Graphics group doing invitations on an C941e.. they kept complaining the "envelopes" come out sealed from the unit! I asked them to warm their oven ... put a few small stacks in the oven set about 100. (thinking moisture) they called back in an hour or so.. STILL stuck when they came out of oven (handling over the phone .. didn't want to pay for me to come on site)... finally she agreed for me to come out after another hour on phone.
Got there... the envelopes were PRESS TO SEAL Type... her paper supplier had switched the type they sent...
I pull the fuser.. and HOLY SHIT! it looked like they had run 1 mil cheap labels thru it... the 200 or so of the PTS had gummed the whole fuser up too!

they had to buy a new fixing unit... and it was the "envelope model" fuser for that machine too!

[tonerhead]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

I'm not much help, but these are not really much for envelope feeding. As far as I know, you can only feed envelopes on short edge, as long edge does not provide enough paper travel between one roller to the next. On some other Ricohs you are able to feed LEF by opening the flap before feeding, might be worth a try if you haven't. On other Ricohs I have set envelopes to thick 1 or 2 and created a custom sized media. Years ago, I was shown the difference in envelopes that crease and those that don't. It might boil down to this. I was once informed by Ricoh that creasing is partially a result of air trapped in the evelope as it goes through the fuser. Envelopes specifically designed for copiers have somewhat of a rounded edge on the "straight, narrow" flap to allow air to escape out of envelope, This compares to those with "v" flaps that totally go edge to edge, not allowing air to escape ( generally the common WalMart types)

Good luck

[FrohnB]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

can't really speak on the main of your question (thickness issue) but in all 31+yrs... Envelopes have ALWAYS been the PIA in the industry. Wrinkles .. Skewing .. Feed Direction.

"Roll Folded" envelopes seem to ALWAYS crease wrinkle
"Flat or Press Fold" envelopes do better, but the cheaper ones have more problems

Agree with them being a PITA! Seems on every model/ and with every customer you have to "narrow down" the appropriate way to feed them to prevent certain defects, or just to get them to pass without jamming (I know this is coupled with envelope type/ quality and machine). Not everyone uses the same type, so each case is unique to a certain degree.

[JDYAL]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

There are several TSB about adjusting Nip width on several differt models but I agree envelopes are a pain. Never had a Ricoh not wrinkle at least one in a batch. Good times

[FrohnB]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

I'm not much help, but these are not really much for envelope feeding. As far as I know, you can only feed envelopes on short edge, as long edge does not provide enough paper travel between one roller to the next. On some other Ricohs you are able to feed LEF by opening the flap before feeding, might be worth a try if you haven't. On other Ricohs I have set envelopes to thick 1 or 2 and created a custom sized media. Years ago, I was shown the difference in envelopes that crease and those that don't. It might boil down to this. I was once informed by Ricoh that creasing is partially a result of air trapped in the evelope as it goes through the fuser. Envelopes specifically designed for copiers have somewhat of a rounded edge on the "straight, narrow" flap to allow air to escape out of envelope, This compares to those with "v" flaps that totally go edge to edge, not allowing air to escape ( generally the common WalMart types)

Good luck

I think you have hit the nail on the head! I did try running with the flap open and setting custom size, and it still jammed. I also told the customer yesterday that my "theory" is air getting trapped causing the creasing, and that the flap itself was causing a little resistance (catching) on one of the guides creating a "new partial fold" of the flap on the trailing edge. Nice to hear that the air being trapped could be part of the cause. The envelopes are indeed the ones with the flap going totally edge to edge, and looking around our store I found some with the "rounded edge". Might try them both and compare once we get another c6503 in the shop. Customer said they can live with minor defects (they're not doing a whole lot of mailing) as long as it's letting them pass and they can read them.

Thanks for the input.

[slimslob]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

J098 is a paper thickness error. Have you tried turning Paper Thickness Detect OFF for the tray being used, SP 1313?

I have also found that envelopes often and card stock being printed on 1 side only work better if face up exiting is selected in the driver under Finishing.

[FrohnB]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

J098 is a paper thickness error. Have you tried turning Paper Thickness Detect OFF for the tray being used, SP 1313?

I have also found that envelopes often and card stock being printed on 1 side only work better if face up exiting is selected in the driver under Finishing.

I did indeed Slim. That's how we got them to feed without jamming and also took care of the light print on the envelopes. Just wondered what the hell the deal is with that "Thickness setting". ON and it jams/ light print, OFF and it passes/ dark print.

[slimslob]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

I did indeed Slim. That's how we got them to feed without jamming and also took care of the light print on the envelopes. Just wondered what the hell the deal is with that "Thickness setting". ON and it jams/ light print, OFF and it passes/ dark print.

If the machine does not actually have a paper type selection for the type and size envelope you are using, then setting paper type and thickness turns into a crap shoot. Until you find that one setting that works, everything else is crap. The layered double+ thickness of the envelope is the culprit. The thin layer of air between the layers of the paper interferes with the PTR transfer current causing lowered print density and more toner going to the ITB waste.

[mincopier]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

This model does have an Envelope setting that has not failed us yet. Get good fusing, great text and the obligatory folding on some envelopes. Also, we always feed envelopes closed up.

[dalewb74]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

Had a call yesterday on this model for Envelopes not feeding and Light print on the envelopes.
When I arrived, I tested one through the bypass, and it feeds until after the fuser, then goes into a "Jam" and drops into the purge zone by the waste toner.
Jam code was "J098 - Thickness Error". After some hunting I found SP 1-313 "Thickness Setting" and turned OFF this setting for Bypass. And Voila! Envelopes printed without jamming and the text was dark and legible.

Just wanted to throw this out there in case anybody runs into this. Was kind of an odd one.

Now a couple questions for you guys. First, What's up with that thickness setting and why did it prevent the envelopes from feeding? Second, Is there any way to get it to feed the envelopes flap side first/ long edge or flap side/ long edge to the right? Tried for over an hour to get it to print this way, but no matter how we set it up on computer and copier size settings, it would jam. The only way we could get it to feed was short edge first. The reason I ask is because with the short edge feed, 9 out of 10 envelopes have creases or the flap on trailing side is shifted and creased making the envelope look terrible. I tried all sorts of "Depressure - Envelopes" and "Slant correction - envelopes" and Nip band and thickness settings in SP mode to no avail. Is there something I'm missing that would put Less pressure on the envelopes?

Thanks in Advance.

i got lucky one day and stumbled upon it by accident myself. was very helpful when i was scratching my head trying to figure out how to fix the issue.

[mikadonovan]

Re: FYI on MP C6503 (Jam 098)

I would think that the "thickness" setting is to prevent 2 or more multifed sheets of paper from getting to far inside the machine. Too thick and the machine indicates a misfeed rather than even try to feed it through.