New MP4000 Dev Unit

[Jomama46]

What are the differences between the old and new developer units?

[cobiray]

IDK. I assumed it was just the new mag assy.

[largo]

see HERE THE OFFICIAL RTB

GREETZZZZ

[cobiray]

Al, were you asking about the 3500/4500 or 4000/5000?

[Kopyrtek]

Ok, just replaced the dv unit and the drum unit on a MP 4000 three weeks ago and havent heard back yet from them.Hated to replace both but that is what it took to repair.Tried the dv unit first but no good.Took both to make it all good.
Dont know if the new mag unit is the cure for sure but taking both to make it run after 80k and keep the customer happy is all i know to do right now.
Ricoh needs to be on the ball after this series if they want to be any help to the dealers they "still" have.

[Llama God]

But to be honest the mono machines will most likely be dying a death in the next year or two, high volume stuff aside.

You're right though, these machines have been dogs from the word go.

[Kopyrtek]

Hehe...love the name.
Yes b/w machines are on the way out but we have to service them till they run out of parts.Nothing else in the wings waiting on the b/w front but we still have to deal with what we are dealt for now.
Heard so rumblings about a new toner/developer for these machine coming but i dont know if that is what will actually fix this problem.But i do hope so.

[Jomama46]

Al, were you asking about the 3500/4500 or 4000/5000?

MP4/5000. But both I guess. I Haven't had any issues with the 3500, only the MP5000 and only 1 out of 3 of those. But just that one is costly in terms of time and developer. It has puzzled me why they would blame the toner when both series used the same toner. But when you add in the factor that a very few machines in both series are actually experiencing the problem I guess the facts are laid bare.

The bulletin posted by largo says it all I guess. and Thanks Largo for posting that.

[paulg]

MP4/5000. But both I guess. I Haven't had any issues with the 3500, only the MP5000 and only 1 out of 3 of those. But just that one is costly in terms of time and developer. It has puzzled me why they would blame the toner when both series used the same toner. But when you add in the factor that a very few machines in both series are actually experiencing the problem I guess the facts are laid bare.

The bulletin posted by largo says it all I guess. and Thanks Largo for posting that.

Well from what I hear Ricoh Europe have been inundated with claims, many which fail due to the stringent criteria.

Speak to any engineer who goes to loads of either and they will say there is a serious problem the odd few do ok but it is the odd few.

Many engineers have got so used to preventive work that the problem is partially hidden.

The area I work in was lucky and most deals due to the spendhappy days the salesteam opted for colour machines athena and appolons. Other reas were not so lucky.

[Guvnah]

We have guys with locations that have 20+ of these and they are having nightmares.

I personally deal with enough of all these to know there is a very real problem. 3500, 4000 and 5000 all use the same developer and toner and they all have the same issues with copies going light and gray long before PM is necessary. You have to wonder what the engineers were thinking and how did these ever get past QA. You know they didn't do enough testing when the #1 problem with these machines is that they need constant developer changes, but out of the box most of these 4000/5000 units fail the developer initialization until you update the firmware. Seriously- how the heck did THAT get past them?

We have been comparing notes about when expected failure rates can be. Typically you can expect the first major issues at about 65-70K where you will find toner packed full in the PCU, resulting in serious streaking. Developer/toner will be piled onto the dev unit and the copies will be light. The dev mix is way overtoned and the mag roller will be coated black. The problem happens more often if the machines are run hard or steadily with short jobs of 1 to 2 pages. The only ones we don't see often are the ones that sit barely used. But over time they get it, too.

The ONLY thing I have found that seems to help is to strongly advise the customer to replace the toner AS SOON AS the warning message appears. If the low toner state appears and the machine is allowed to keep running until the toner mix is low, the machine will dump and dump to compensate, never thinking it has enough. In some cases, you can have piles of toner everywhere and the machine will still be saying "add toner."

Changing the values in 2201-001 and 2201-002 does help a little bit immediately following pm/dev change, but it does little over time.

The 4000/5000 don't seem to have as severe a problem with the pileup and clogging of the pcu that the 3500 has. But They are more likely to fail early and hard. I have seen them go light and band the drum at <17K. In almost every case you find severe coating of the mag roller as if it were spray painted black. The excessive toner dumping causes the waste toner/transfer to fill much earlier than expected as well- couple that with the 4000/5000 tendency to freak out and report "waste toner nearly full" and you can expect a lot of calls (the transfer assembly has been updated with more reliable parts since inception, though.)

The newer machines have all the same toner/dev problems as the 3500 but the machines are a study in ridiculous Rube Goldberg style engineering. None of the existing problems were fixed, but LOTS of things that worked fine have been "fixed" through overly complicated new additions. The web and fuser assembly is probably the most notorious issue here, but other fun additions are little details like the miniature feed belts in the vertical transport, an all new unique pickup roller for the doc feeder (because we need more parts to keep track of, I guess,) a radically redesigned transfer assembly that has a tendency to get out of place, causing the "waste toner nearly full" message and jams. The transport section around the transfer has a new design that features snap-in guides that EASILY get knocked out of place and will break when the door is closed. Even the toner hopper got reinvented, and it features a new style handle that needs to be twisted. It gets ripped out easily, too- nurses can tear these machines up. It is much less user friendly than the old models.

I don't mean to rant here, but these machines are an extreme disappointment, and require more service than comparable models. The bottom line is that they need service twice as often as they should, and the labor takes twice as long as it should.

Anyway, if you work on these much, you'll need to vent, too. But I can offer a positive- all the trays will auto detect paper size now. That's something, I guess.

[Llama God]

So not a fan then Guvnah?

[Guvnah]

Hah- no.

I secretly believe that these machines are the real reason everyone will eventually wind up with color MFPs.

[KopyKat]

Hah- no.

I secretly believe that these machines are the real reason everyone will eventually wind up with color MFPs.

Ah-Ha! You just stumbled upon Ricoh's secret master plan to 'colorize' the world! All they have to do is screw up the B&W mid-range MFP's enough to deter the sales force from selling them!

[iMind]

[paulg]

Think back to analogue days and how long digital took to take over.
Personally in 3 or 4 years i doubt apart from high volume anything will be mono.

The market needs people to have a reason to change during the dot com bubble burst it was analogue to digital which went far faster than most techs thought it would be. Remeber all those engineers who were going to see there years out looking after the analogues in the field?

Of course 2nd hand market will go on for years but I think the manufactuers will dump it as quickly as they can.

Its rare to see a new install with a mono now, most consist of colour devices even though many are locked down to BW for most.