Scanner color problem in MP 301

[UNICORNico]

We have been contacted by a client who informs us of a somewhat peculiar failure. Before going I want to tell you about the case, as I find it interesting.
The 1st image is when the device scans in Black, in principle everything normal.
001.jpg
The 2nd and 3rd images are when you scan in color or in "color detection", and what is seen in the image happens.
002.jpg003.jpg
Red rectangles are there to protect customer data.
I am almost convinced that the light must enter in some way that alters refraction of the mirrors in the scanner or an anomaly with dirt or a poor cleaning of the mirrors. Although I am open to suggestions.

[luca72]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

We have been contacted by a client who informs us of a somewhat peculiar failure. Before going I want to tell you about the case, as I find it interesting.
The 1st image is when the device scans in Black, in principle everything normal.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]53546[/ATTACH]
The 2nd and 3rd images are when you scan in color or in "color detection", and what is seen in the image happens.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]53547[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]53548[/ATTACH]
Red rectangles are there to protect customer data.
I am almost convinced that the light must enter in some way that alters refraction of the mirrors in the scanner or an anomaly with dirt or a poor cleaning of the mirrors. Although I am open to suggestions.

sorry, but havent the original in hand, i dont sure understand the defect.

[UNICORNico]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

sorry, but havent the original in hand, i dont sure understand the defect.

The original is BLACK all text. My fault for not indicating it.

[tonerhead]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

My first thought would be the ccd. That is a weird one.

[slimslob]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

Common problem. Unless you know you are scanning a color original and you want the scan in color you should keep the scanner set for B/W. Make for faster scanning and smaller scanned documents.

Another problem is that the original make have been printed in composite black and not pure black. Often it is the blue that bleed through under bright light but red is possible.

[UNICORNico]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

Common problem. Unless you know you are scanning a color original and you want the scan in color you should keep the scanner set for B/W. Make for faster scanning and smaller scanned documents.
Another problem is that the original make have been printed in composite black and not pure black. Often it is the blue that bleed through under bright light but red is possible.

In what sense do you say "common problem"?
I would understand this failure in machines that work in color and require calibration of it, but in black machines that scan in color, the truth is my first case.

My first thought would be the ccd. That is a weird one.

Is the "CCD" the "CARRIAGE SCANNER ASS'Y"?
It is so as not to make a mistake in the budget.
Out of curiosity, can that be seen if it is manipulated and corrected?, I am lazy to make a budget and that the piece takes me an eternity because of the current situation, and that the client is impatient for the delay.

[slimslob]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

In what sense do you say "common problem"?
I would understand this failure in machines that work in color and require calibration of it, but in black machines that scan in color, the truth is my first case.

Under the high intensity of the scanner lamp, individual pigments within black ink can and very often do bleed through.

Is the "CCD" the "CARRIAGE SCANNER ASS'Y"?
It is so as not to make a mistake in the budget.
Out of curiosity, can that be seen if it is manipulated and corrected?, I am lazy to make a budget and that the piece takes me an eternity because of the current situation, and that the client is impatient for the delay.

The CCD is the active part of the Lens block assembly and cannot be replaced separately. On a color model you can adjust it with Auto Color Calibration in the Maintenance portion of User Tools.

Ricoh went to using color CCD in most models because it allowed them to purchase them in a high enough quantity that the overall cost was less.

[luca72]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

The original is BLACK all text. My fault for not indicating it.

as always, I would start from the simplest thing, go, go up
1) I would verify that the customer did not set by default some strange setting, various pdf compressions, particular image mode in the scan settings (I lost 2 hours for problems in the past with the watermark of the ID card that created strange color effects that did not exist for anything else)
2) try on another pc.
3) firmware update
4) even a nice sp clear scanner could prove to be the trump card
5) then a nice clean optics

personally i have some dubt on ccd, but i can wrong

[KeviM]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

Agreed, this is a bit a common issue on some machines though I haven't experienced it on a MP301

I would say try a different original. Perhaps a test chart. Just to make sure it's not the original or some fault with the original like Slimslob mentioned.

Next would be strip your optics and fully service it. May be dust or something.

Next would be colour calibration.

Finally replace the scanner. The Carriage scanner assembly that moves. Could be damaged and not reading colours correctly.

Also, do your firmware updates

Best of luck friend

[slimslob]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

The original is BLACK all text. My fault for not indicating it.

Co you know the source of the "BLACK" text. Do you know the specific pigment(s) and their sources? If it was the machine and not the ink of the text, I would expect it to be affecting more than just the color of the text.

[emiliorsg]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

I had a similar problem some time ago with a c305, the customer's delivery notes were made on pre-printed paper and the scanner detected it as color. As slimslob indicates, really the black was not pure black but a mixture of colors and I read it as a dark brown. Anyway, clean the optics well.

[UNICORNico]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

UPDATE, I put you in situation:
The prints are made under the MP 301 itself (so the black it uses, except for the grayscale is the standard), the optics have been cleaned and during the ignition after it, an SC 142 has been generated. This made my eyebrow arch very hard... (I didn't see the point of provoking the SC)


After reviewing the SC and doing a quick search with the mobile, there was a fact that caught my attention, "Unclean white plate", something that I found outside the manuals that I currently have. Therefore, I risked to take off with patience and delicacy the glass of the "EXPOSURE GLASS UNIT" to clean the White Plate.


Already breathing more relief, sc 142 disappeared, but the problems continued.
The sample for the tests was the Color Pattern of a machine that we have in the workshop.
1b9c7815.jpg
The problem with "bleeding" persists but a greenish area is generated that did not exist or appreciable.
202206070956.jpg
I came up with a crazy thing and it was to remove the cover that covers the circuit of the LED's, because despite cleaning and not finding dirt on the paper, I found it strange. And what was my surprise when the greenish area disappeared completely and the reddish hue in the blacks had been reduced, not much, but enough to think that I am on the right track.
ca916a2b.jpg1db283e2.jpg202206071000.jpg
So I assume that the problem must come from the circuido of LED's, or a failure in the strength of illumination or tonality in it causing the reading to be generated erroneously.

Right now the client has configured the machine to make the scanner the White / Black, to Text / Photo and 300 but they can continue to use the color despite the fact that the failure persists, right now something less striking. I am not very clear that the LEDs can be ordered, since according to cutting it does not reflect but if they appear with a screen-printed reference in the circuit.
17cc9f72.jpg
Any suggestions before asking for anything?

PS.:
- The scanner has been deleted.
- Firmware Update
- PDF encoding is the device standard (not using PDF/A)

[slimslob]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

[ATTACH=CONFIG]53574[/ATTACH]
Any suggestions before asking for anything?

PS.:
- The scanner has been deleted.
- Firmware Update
- PDF encoding is the device standard (not using PDF/A)

The part number shown is possibly the number for the blank PCB with no components mounted. D117 is an MP C305. Both the MP 301 and the MP C305 show the same part number for the complete scanner carriage but no separate for the LED board. Of course my parts catalog is 10 years old.

[L0rdC]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

UPDATE, I put you in situation:
The prints are made under the MP 301 itself (so the black it uses, except for the grayscale is the standard), the optics have been cleaned and during the ignition after it, an SC 142 has been generated. This made my eyebrow arch very hard... (I didn't see the point of provoking the SC)


After reviewing the SC and doing a quick search with the mobile, there was a fact that caught my attention, "Unclean white plate", something that I found outside the manuals that I currently have. Therefore, I risked to take off with patience and delicacy the glass of the "EXPOSURE GLASS UNIT" to clean the White Plate.


Already breathing more relief, sc 142 disappeared, but the problems continued.
The sample for the tests was the Color Pattern of a machine that we have in the workshop.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]53569[/ATTACH]
The problem with "bleeding" persists but a greenish area is generated that did not exist or appreciable.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]53570[/ATTACH]
I came up with a crazy thing and it was to remove the cover that covers the circuit of the LED's, because despite cleaning and not finding dirt on the paper, I found it strange. And what was my surprise when the greenish area disappeared completely and the reddish hue in the blacks had been reduced, not much, but enough to think that I am on the right track.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]53571[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]53572[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]53573[/ATTACH]
So I assume that the problem must come from the circuido of LED's, or a failure in the strength of illumination or tonality in it causing the reading to be generated erroneously.

Right now the client has configured the machine to make the scanner the White / Black, to Text / Photo and 300 but they can continue to use the color despite the fact that the failure persists, right now something less striking. I am not very clear that the LEDs can be ordered, since according to cutting it does not reflect but if they appear with a screen-printed reference in the circuit.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]53574[/ATTACH]
Any suggestions before asking for anything?

PS.:
- The scanner has been deleted.
- Firmware Update
- PDF encoding is the device standard (not using PDF/A)

check that there is no dirt in the path of the scan head and try to lubricate it.
It has happened to me before in kyocera, it fills with dust and when moving it does not do the scanning well, because of the adf it also does it?
PS: in Murcia there is a lot of dust, I'm tired of cleaning the size sensors of the adf

[UNICORNico]

Re: Scanner color problem in MP 301

check that there is no dirt in the path of the scan head and try to lubricate it.
It has happened to me before in kyocera, it fills with dust and when moving it does not do the scanning well, because of the adf it also does it?
PS: in Murcia there is a lot of dust, I'm tired of cleaning the size sensors of the adf

You already know that Murcia is known as "Mordor" xD ha ha ha. (Calor y Polvo sobran a capazos)
On the lubrication of the displacement rails, I do not see how that can affect so that it generates colors where there are none.

The part number shown is possibly the number for the blank PCB with no components mounted. D117 is an MP C305. Both the MP 301 and the MP C305 show the same part number for the complete scanner carriage but no separate for the LED board. Of course my parts catalog is 10 years old.

You were right, I just checked it and they are the same piece [D1171651] CARRIAGE SCANNER ASS'Y. Well, I think I have one for scrapping... Maybe I'll go back to the customer and do a test to see what happens, to experiment.