Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

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  • blackcat4866
    Master Of The Obvious

    Site Contributor
    10,000+ Posts
    • Jul 2007
    • 22599
    #1

    Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

    Three visits to resolve this one, and it's so stupid I'm still beating myself up over it. In my defense, I don't work on Ricoh's very often any more, and I was set up, but I still should have found the cause sooner.

    On the first visit another tech ordered up a main thermistor.

    On the second visit I installed the main thermistor, reset the fuser error in 5810-01, and powered Off/On. It wouldn't stay cleared. After a few minutes with the manual I find that the C552 refers to a sub-thermistor error. Doh! I noticed that the heat belt was running off the rear side of the pulleys, and re-aligned it. This was an important clue that I missed.

    On the third visit I installed the sub-thermistor and the IH inverter, reset the fuser error in 5810-01, and powered Off/On. Again it won't stay cleared. That's all that the manual offers on this subject. Again I notice that the heat belt has run off the rear side of the pulleys. As I'm re-aligning the belt I'm thinking about the IH heater. It causes the metal roller inside the heat belt to become warm and with the belt running off, the rubber inner ridge is holding the belt away from the heated roller. So maybe the belt isn't being properly heated on the sub-thermistor end with it running off.

    So why is the damn thing running off? Then I notice that the fuser pressure levers have a couple different possible settings. It seems to be in the "Envelope" setting (if there is one). Just for kicks, I set the fuser pressure levers to max pressure, run 5810-01, and power Off/On. To my delight the code stays cleared, and the machine prints off 4 or 5 dozen prints that have accumulated in the queue. These pressure levers are not easy to access.

    Or how about this?: The additional pressure provided by the pressure roller means more nipp width, and helps even out the warming of the heat belt. I don't know. Ricoh, add this to your manual please:
    C552 apply fixing pressure, dumb-ass. =^..^=
    If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
    1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
    2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
    3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
    4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
    5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

    blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=
    Tags: drain
    • nmfaxman
      Service Manager

      Site Contributor
      1,000+ Posts
      • Feb 2008
      • 1705
      #2
      Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

      Originally posted by blackcat4866
      Three visits to resolve this one, and it's so stupid I'm still beating myself up over it. In my defense, I don't work on Ricoh's very often any more, and I was set up, but I still should have found the cause sooner.

      On the first visit another tech ordered up a main thermistor.

      On the second visit I installed the main thermistor, reset the fuser error in 5810-01, and powered Off/On. It wouldn't stay cleared. After a few minutes with the manual I find that the C552 refers to a sub-thermistor error. Doh! I noticed that the heat belt was running off the rear side of the pulleys, and re-aligned it. This was an important clue that I missed.

      On the third visit I installed the sub-thermistor and the IH inverter, reset the fuser error in 5810-01, and powered Off/On. Again it won't stay cleared. That's all that the manual offers on this subject. Again I notice that the heat belt has run off the rear side of the pulleys. As I'm re-aligning the belt I'm thinking about the IH heater. It causes the metal roller inside the heat belt to become warm and with the belt running off, the rubber inner ridge is holding the belt away from the heated roller. So maybe the belt isn't being properly heated on the sub-thermistor end with it running off.

      So why is the damn thing running off? Then I notice that the fuser pressure levers have a couple different possible settings. It seems to be in the "Envelope" setting (if there is one). Just for kicks, I set the fuser pressure levers to max pressure, run 5810-01, and power Off/On. To my delight the code stays cleared, and the machine prints off 4 or 5 dozen prints that have accumulated in the queue. These pressure levers are not easy to access.

      Or how about this?: The additional pressure provided by the pressure roller means more nipp width, and helps even out the warming of the heat belt. I don't know. Ricoh, add this to your manual please:
      C552 apply fixing pressure, dumb-ass. =^..^=

      It is always the simple ones that piss you off.
      Why do they call it common sense?

      If it were common, wouldn't everyone have it?

        Comment

        • jonezy999
          just one copy??

          Site Contributor
          500+ Posts
          • Feb 2010
          • 952
          #3
          Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

          These fusers aren't a great deal of fun to have in bits and it can get really hard to remember exactly how everything goes back during the first couple of rebuilds. Those pressure levers are included in the "not so fun" section.

          I agree with you 100% regarding Ricoh manuals. Not very technical these days.
          I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. ~Thomas Edison

            Comment

            • Oze
              Ricoh Fanboy

              1,000+ Posts
              • Jul 2008
              • 1663
              #4
              Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

              Originally posted by jonezy999
              These fusers aren't a great deal of fun to have in bits and it can get really hard to remember exactly how everything goes back during the first couple of rebuilds. Those pressure levers are included in the "not so fun" section.

              I agree with you 100% regarding Ricoh manuals. Not very technical these days.
              We've taken a page out of Ricoh's book and we now order and mod printer units....bugger refurbing those bastards for a joke..!!!!

                Comment

                • Shadow1
                  Service Manager

                  Site Contributor
                  1,000+ Posts
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1642
                  #5
                  Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                  Ricoh engineers need to be hung from the roof by their own balls then forced to work on the machines they design. If there's something simple, and easy to PM, and especially if it's been working great for years, you best better bet and be sure the old design is on the chopping block and the new units will be 10 times as hard to fiddle with.

                  Look at the fuser in the 35 / 45 CPM machines - for years they ran great and took 20 minutes tops to completely tear down and rebuild. Now the @#$%&* web on the MP4000 / 5000 takes twice that long just by itself (if you don't mod them with a snakeskin roller) and the stupid bastards left it untouched in the 4001 and now the 4002.

                  Same deal with the Pro C900 - sure it was a booger with the oil, but not bad to pm, and everything was assemblies... The C901 put the same kind of web as the 4000 - and don't even get me started on the C651 fuser...

                  So what happened to the MP6000 and Pro 907ex type design? I'll tell you what happened... it made sense - that's exactly why Ricoh changed it.

                  <End of rant>
                  73 DE W5SSJ

                    Comment

                    • ucinn
                      Trusted Tech

                      250+ Posts
                      • Jun 2009
                      • 383
                      #6
                      Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                      Originally posted by Shadow1
                      Ricoh engineers need to be hung from the roof by their own balls then forced to work on the machines they design. If there's something simple, and easy to PM, and especially if it's been working great for years, you best better bet and be sure the old design is on the chopping block and the new units will be 10 times as hard to fiddle with.

                      Look at the fuser in the 35 / 45 CPM machines - for years they ran great and took 20 minutes tops to completely tear down and rebuild. Now the @#$%&* web on the MP4000 / 5000 takes twice that long just by itself (if you don't mod them with a snakeskin roller) and the stupid bastards left it untouched in the 4001 and now the 4002.

                      Same deal with the Pro C900 - sure it was a booger with the oil, but not bad to pm, and everything was assemblies... The C901 put the same kind of web as the 4000 - and don't even get me started on the C651 fuser...

                      So what happened to the MP6000 and Pro 907ex type design? I'll tell you what happened... it made sense - that's exactly why Ricoh changed it.

                      <End of rant>

                      If engineers aren't changing something, then they are not needed and thus out of a job. They have to change something to stay employed.

                        Comment

                        • sandmanmac
                          Field Supervisor

                          Site Contributor
                          2,500+ Posts
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 3931
                          #7
                          Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                          Originally posted by ucinn
                          If engineers aren't changing something, then they are not needed and thus out of a job. They have to change something to stay employed.

                          True. so many things are 'over-engineered' these days.
                          There's a saying that if you ask an engineer what time it is, he'll tell you how to build a watch.

                            Comment

                            • Shadow1
                              Service Manager

                              Site Contributor
                              1,000+ Posts
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1642
                              #8
                              Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                              Originally posted by ucinn
                              If engineers aren't changing something, then they are not needed and thus out of a job. They have to change something to stay employed.
                              Not true! They can work as techs for a couple months - we need the help because everything they just "fixed" takes 3 times as long to work on, and don't work half as well...

                              ...then they would learn to fix the stuff that actually needs fixing.
                              73 DE W5SSJ

                                Comment

                                • blackcat4866
                                  Master Of The Obvious

                                  Site Contributor
                                  10,000+ Posts
                                  • Jul 2007
                                  • 22599
                                  #9
                                  Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                                  If anybody's interested the code came back. I've cleared it twice in two days. It clears now, but for not quite long enough. Any ideas what could cause the C552? The thermistors are both new, and the belt is running true now though I don't know exactly what I did.

                                  How about crappy power? It's got 3.5vac ground to neutral and the VAC varies from 108 to 124. All that's really left is the fuser assembly which costs a fortune, and I give a 50% chance at best of resolving the problem. =^..^=
                                  If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                  1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                  2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                  3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                  4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                  5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                  blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                    Comment

                                    • Venom
                                      Technical/IT Support

                                      500+ Posts
                                      • Nov 2009
                                      • 765
                                      #10
                                      Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                                      Originally posted by blackcat4866
                                      If anybody's interested the code came back. I've cleared it twice in two days. It clears now, but for not quite long enough. Any ideas what could cause the C552? The thermistors are both new, and the belt is running true now though I don't know exactly what I did.

                                      How about crappy power? It's got 3.5vac ground to neutral and the VAC varies from 108 to 124. All that's really left is the fuser assembly which costs a fortune, and I give a 50% chance at best of resolving the problem. =^..^=
                                      Well, if it isn't a fuser....
                                      Seems to me those machines have a weak frame that if floor is uneven, the whole frame warps a little and causes fuser issues...theory if fuser is too far away, the inductance heating won't work as quick. Check copier is level and straight on stand.
                                      IBM, Mita, Konica Minolta, Ricoh, Kyocera, HyPAS, Canon, Oce, Samsung, HP, TEO IP PBX/Unified Communications, Comptia Network+ Comptia PDI+ Certifications

                                        Comment

                                        • blackcat4866
                                          Master Of The Obvious

                                          Site Contributor
                                          10,000+ Posts
                                          • Jul 2007
                                          • 22599
                                          #11
                                          Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                                          Hey, it's something I haven't looked at yet. Thanks! =^..^=
                                          If you'd like a serious answer to your request:
                                          1) demonstrate that you've read the manual
                                          2) demonstrate that you made some attempt to fix it.
                                          3) if you're going to ask about jams include the jam code.
                                          4) if you're going to ask about an error code include the error code.
                                          5) You are the person onsite. Only you can make observations.

                                          blackcat: Master Of The Obvious =^..^=

                                            Comment

                                            • Shadow1
                                              Service Manager

                                              Site Contributor
                                              1,000+ Posts
                                              • Sep 2008
                                              • 1642
                                              #12
                                              Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                                              Originally posted by blackcat4866
                                              How about crappy power? It's got 3.5vac ground to neutral and the VAC varies from 108 to 124. All that's really left is the fuser assembly which costs a fortune, and I give a 50% chance at best of resolving the problem. =^..^=
                                              108 is a little low especially when you knock an additional 3.5 off for the neutral voltage... it's like stopping up the drain, you can only run the sink so much. The N-G voltage isn't good, but I've seen worse - if it was your job to investigate you'd probably find an unbalanced panel with incorrect installation and / or substandard mains feed.

                                              Might not be your problem, but it sure ain't helping, and it's wrong enough that it needs fixed.
                                              73 DE W5SSJ

                                                Comment

                                                • Gift
                                                  Service Manager

                                                  1,000+ Posts
                                                  • Mar 2011
                                                  • 2384
                                                  #13
                                                  Re: Heads-up: MP-C4500 with C552

                                                  If the error was temporarily gone after fidlding around at the fuser I'd probably order a fuser for the SPC811 series and mod this for the MPC.

                                                    Comment

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