MXFNX1 codes

[glewisme]

Hey all,
I've got this MXFNX1 that works perfectly fine as long as you don't try to staple. It has all the current mods I even replaced the stapler harness again. I'm getting F1-19 and F1-20 codes(finisher pre alingnment and after alignment codes). Like I said I performed the mods and I even replaced the finisher control PWB.Also of note the load testes all seem to check out fine as well. Any Ideas folks.

[OMD-227]

Did this start happening after your mods and harness were fitted?

Does the load test for the joggers work OK as well?
You would get those errors if the front/rear joggers are jammed for some reason.
I'd take the finisher out of the machine, still connected of course, take the top cover off and run all the sims to get a much better view of what is happening. Setup a small table next to the copier to sit the finisher on, so there is no stress on the main cable.

[glewisme]

MXFNX1 codes

Thanks Wazza I'll try to give it a try.My biggest issue is it's a new customer and I don't want any escalation,if I had another finisher I'd swap it and TS it away from there.Thanks for the input.

[glewisme]

Oh and yes the jogger seemed to be fine during the load tests

[glewisme]

still puzzled

Hey all ,
I'm still having the code issues (f1-19 f1-20 codes) both for the alignment on for front one for rear.All sensors tested fine as well as load on all motors. I tested them just like WAZZA had suggested .Yet when trying to staple it aligns the paper properly,but instead of the staple unit firing it throws the codes.Any Ideas??? I know the codes don't relate to the stapler but I want to lean to it. It's not like it couldn't be a false error indication .

[OMD-227]

I actually have got this same call open at the moment. Was at one yesterday with exactly the same fault. Error F1-19 & F1-20 on staple jobs only. I forgot that you have this open as well.

From my diagnostics, the staple motor sim test is not working. The staple carriage moves freely from front to rear in sim, but the staple motor test in sim gets to the first staple position then just stalls.

I had the finisher out on a bench with it still connected to the machine, so I could run sims and watch clearly inside the finisher.

The staple unit moves past 3 notches along the front to rear carriage, which activate a sensor on the staple unit, telling it where it is located & where to staple. There are 2 notches on the front & rear jogger plates, and one exactly in the middle. As you move the staple unit from front to rear with your hand (machine powered off of course), you will see the 3 notches activate the sensor arm on the staple unit. Once activated, the staple unit would normally fire at that point depending if it is a 1 or 2 staple job.

Each of these individual sensor tests in the finisher appear to work OK in sim, but the positioning sensor does not work in normal operating mode. I know it is not a staple motor problem as the staple unit will work perfectly fine when selecting from the 3 staple options in output settings, the far right/reverse staple option. This option makes the staple unit work in the lower rear corner instead. As the staple unit moves to the rear side first for a top corner staple or 2-point staple, that is where the trouble is coming from, because we have a faulty positioning sensor. The reverse, lower corner staple works, because the staple unit is not moving to the rear side first, just staying at the front side, then firing. The sim test for the staple motor is not working because the positioning sensor seems faulty. I know..... its a weird one!!
I have confirmed that my front home position sensor is working with correct 5V. My rear home position sensor seems to be playing up. I have ordered both HP sensors and will replace them today most likely. With these sensors playing up, it would explain why the error codes appear on stapling jobs as the staple unit is not sure where it actually is along the carriage, yet knows its home positions in sim test OK.
Typically..... its not a regular Sharp sensor part number, like a APPD or POD sensor.
As all of our FNX1's had the firmware to correct/prevent the harness breakage immediately after its release, I know the staple harness is OK and working (Thank God for that!! - total PITA to replace).

I'll keep you up to date with what I find out.

W.

[OMD-227]

Oh, by the way.... just disable stapling, under Device Control in system settings, so the client can use the machine without any errors until fixed. Sure, they cant staple, but hey...... come on..... fair's fair.

[glewisme]

Sounds exactly the same as my issue.Those sensors were my first thought but they tested ok too.Let me know if it works. Are they these part #'s 0CWE314000784. I did disable the stapler (fist thing I did) Thanks ! ! !

[OMD-227]

Yep, thats the ones.....

Sounds like you haven't replaced them yet?

I know it sounds crazy, but I have seen sensors fail in operating mode, but work perfectly fine in sim. Once replaced it was fixed.

I'll keep you in the loop mate.

W

[OMD-227]

OK...........

Problem solved.........

I grabbed another FNX1 from the workshop (with a different issue... unrelated problems), so I could just compare a few things on the clients finisher with a known 'working' FNX1, as this problem seemed abit funky.
I put both finishers on a table next to the machine, ontop of each other. Connected one at a time, while out of the machine, just to compare each during operation.
Every single sim test of load & sensor was exactly the same. The finisher adjustments in 3-10 were the same. The positioning of the joggers, staple unit & transport rollers/exit rollers were all the same. Therefore, it couldnt really be a dead sensor, harness or motor problem (although I have been proven wrong before).

However, I did find this......

When running the staple motor sim (FSM), it was clear to see a very small difference in the timing & activation speed of the staple unit sensor bracket (Parts manual, section 6, item 13).
The 'working' finisher had a quicker sensor bracket response/return time after passing the centre white post.
The original finisher sensor bracket response time after going past the centre white post was just that second slower (due to a grease/paper dust buildup inside the joints). Ths meant that the staple unit sensor was still activated as the staple unit approached & contacted the rear jogger post.
As that occurs, if you are doing a double staple job, the staple unit goes right past the rear staple position, then gives F1-20.
If you are doing a single staple/top corner, the staple unit arrives at the correct location, but as the sensor bracket is still activated from the middle post, the staple unit waits between 1 & 2 seconds, then also gives F1-20.

I cleaned & lubricated the joints on the staple unit bracket to allow faster sensor activation and the problem appears to be fixed. By moving the staple unit back & forth with your hand, it was clear to see how important the timing of that sensor bracket is, as it must activate between the front, centre & rear positioning posts, otherwise it just wants to keep travellling towards the rear side.

I successfully performed 100x double & 100x single staple jobs without any fault. Machine was restarted & tested again without fault.

This also explains the F1-19 errors I had. This was the sensor bracket not responding quick enough between the front & centre posts.

[glewisme]

Thanks Wazza,I did notice when I was there yesterday that arm didn't move as freely as it probably should have not to mention it gets messed with when you remove the staple unit.I'll give it a shot .

[glewisme]

Wazza,good call cleaned and lubed mounts and sensor arm and replaced the spring as well. It had 1 hiccup afterward. I decided to installed a stiffer spring (Minolta POF spring) ran over 150 2 point stapled packet w/no issues.Thanks for the hint!!!!!!

[OMD-227]

No problem Gabe, I learnt something on that finisher too on this call.

Keep this fix in mind, because I really think we'll see it again sometime as these finishers get older.


Glad I could help you out mate.


W

[glewisme]

Definately,easy fix for a unusual issue.

[johnbla]

Thanks for working out that fix Guys....Got me out of a hole today.