MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

[Sam Tofu]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Well regarding the 82 value - I am a little ashamed of not communicating with the other tech who is doing some of the basic tests with this. Turns out he double checked the toner motor - didn't realize you take out toner to check. He just told me he didn't hear motor so pushed the execute about 10 or so times. When I was out there checking the laser, I took out the toner checked motor, toner pipe, sky shot to drum and then checked DV values - seeing the 82.
So we are doing our best to get this complicated
So OTHER than the over toned reading everything else is as the problem stands.

[Dark Helmet]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Im kind of at a loss on this but a guess as to your 82 dv ref could be due to process control. The machine is trying to get densitys up by adding more toner.

[Sam Tofu]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

OK so now good warranty entire replacement belt unit. Sim 44-6 still results with K_HV_ERR (K high density process control error)
Recent change is that:
Now instead of drum being coated during sky shot (like it was before)there is no toner on drum. Have swapped out entire Proc Drum Unit - no difference.
Did 61-1 LSU Test is OK
Checked DV gap and pole - both OK
Checked toner motor -OK
Checked that toner pipe to DV not clogged
HOWEVER last week when put in new DV it calibrated OK at 128. NOW when checked it is down to 82!!
Seems like it may be pointing to the PCU-PWB??? reseated CN5,12,15 no difference

One last "what is it" question...
BTW, I will try to scan a pic of this clear plastic picker finger or pawl- like mystery piece. Not certain where it came from.Customer said forgot to tell me about it. They found it somewhere inside right side door the day the fading issue started.
The piece looks like an oversized picker finger (in that it is much fatter and slightly larger)has two small flat shafts coming off the pawl, each with a hole at the end of both that appears to be for a small shaft to go through. It is NOT FROM FUSER. Doesn't look like pic of separator pawl for transfer belt than was shown in a T.B.

[Sam Tofu]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Thanks Lawrence and mojorola
Will recheck laser as it was one of the first things initially checked
Thanks for the 64-1/17 hadn't thought about that!
Will check out DV unit again today. It was OK last week but there is always some possibility that adjustment screws were loose even though we haven't messed with it yet

Just love these kinds of "tests". Seems about every 2 to 3 months we have to get one to keep us humble.

[Dark Helmet]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

You should just take that thing back to the shop

Try using sim 64-1 pattern 17
It will give you nice solid test prints. Much more consistant than sky shots. You can also select which color you want or even mix colors. You can set the density (default 255) and lighten things up if you wish.

Just for fun check your laser 61-1

[Sam Tofu]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Good thought. I planned to check in case something is loose. Since the issue of faded black copies and error code were there while blk DV unit was functioning OK and giving good readings, it was the last thing I planned to check today.
Ran out of time as the last person there was anxious to get me out

[mojorolla]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Have you done the doctor blade and main pole adjustments for the K developer unit?

[Sam Tofu]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Well got in replacement belt. Still same error still same problem.
BUT HERE IS THE KICKER
last week when I would do a sky shot (tried at several different stages of trouble shooting) - then drum would be covered with black FROM SKY SHOT. Now however, if I make a sky shot and "panic" stop half way through a legal size the only black on the drum is a thin line between drum and DV units. Swapping Drums doesn't make difference.

New warranty belt cams ok for color and black. Prints OK with color.
Still get error when do 44-6

Ugh from bad to worse

[Ditchman]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

For what its worth i to ran into similar image quality trouble, tried different bely unit, proceeded to hunt for other causes, finally tried another belt unit and that sorted it, id go with the belt being the problem!

Hope you get it sorted!

[Sam Tofu]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Good tips blackcat.
Yeah, we just took over this machine and where going to do basic roller kits and general cleaning when the label fiasco hit. cheap labels run through the lower drawers ended up with label pieces on transfer belt 1 & 2, stuck on black drum and drum anti spill plastic.

Unfortunately previous service company had never showed the government agency (45 people) how to use copier. Agency didn't even know how to use the stapler much less that they should use the by-pass for labels.

It is "loaded with staple saddle stitch,folding finisher,with hole punch kit large capacity side deck and just about anything that could be added -

Really very underused. At best a total of 38K per year

Anyway, once we get the machine working, firmware upgrade and instructions for client are in order!

We truly appreciate the help everyone has offered us on this!!!

[blackcat4866]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Sam,
Although its hard to see, the firmware levels look really old. I see you've got the data security kit installed, so this all must be updated before you calibrate. =^..^=

[Sam Tofu]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Thanks blackcat. Yeah I keep going back to the belts cause it just seems to be the issue. Really glad you mentioned to look for springs off etc. We will have the warranty replacement belt in Monday and hopefully that will do it!

[blackcat4866]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

The metal roller that you're talking about is the follower roller, next to the transfer roller. There's one at each end, to lower the belt fully onto the 2 end colors (k & y). If the follower roller is not clipped in properly, there is very little to no black transfer between drum & belt.

From reading all this again, I believe that you've got bad belt units. You should be able to make one good transfer belt assembly from the two bad ones in my opinion. The more I think about it, it's now less likely that it is caused by the transfer charge PWB. =^..^=

[Sam Tofu]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

MX 5001 Scans.pdf
RE the attached. The all faded is the old (worked when took out) belt. Half faded is brand new belt with 400 OK prints before issue.

NOTE: Upon your suggestion blackcat (BTW -THANKS for all the info) I did check new belt and found that the metal rod that hangs under belt near black drum had one side where the rod snaps into place cracked. We are ordering a warranty replacement in am.

HOWEVER, I checked older belt for all contacts, springs, cam action all very carefully 3 times and couldn't find any issues with it. Made certain the density sensors are clean. While I am glad to find out one of the belts logically would cause image problems, and hope when I put the new one in - all will be GREAT.

I have some still "oh no" reservations due to the other older belt having the image issue that showed up the same time the newer belt had issues. BTW, when I took that older belt out initially I carefully re-packaged it in the packing of the new belt to protect it as an emergency backup.

This afternoon -did one more panic stop. Image on drum looks "perfect". Image transferred to belt looks just like the one that ends up on the copied paper.

So if new belt doesn't take care of issue it seems the transfer charge PWB is the next step.

[blackcat4866]

Re: MX5001 back half of black images greatly faded

Just to throw in my two cents:

The reason the machine is giving a K_HV_ERR when performing a 44-06 is due to the fact the image is too light on the belt, when being read by the ID/Calibration density sensor. As the patches on the belt are read by 2 different sensors (one for CMY, one for K), the density sensor is not seeing the patches on the belt, therefore thinking there is a high voltage issue.
Most of the time, this problem is not actually related to a high voltage problem at all. There are many known cases of the Primary Transfer Belt charge PWB not working correctly, especially if the image is OK on the drum (indicating that the MC/HVT PWB is OK). If the transfer charge PWB is not working correctly, the transfer of image from drum to belt is low, then the density sensor cannot read the patches on the belt during forced process control of 44-06.

The primary transfer charge PWB is the same part number across all MX2600, 3100, 4100 & 5000 series machines (RDENU0089FCPZ). This part number has not been upgraded or changed.

If the image is poor on the drum, then the problem is the MC/HVT PWB, which has been upgraded many times. Reading the post, it seems that the image is OK on the drum, so it probably is not that.

The part that troubles me the most is that you keep trying the same two transfer belts. There is a possibility that both of these belts have issues. If one of them is giving a complete light black, and the other is front side frame OK, it sounds like problems with the transfer roller tension springs in the belt unit itself. I have seen cases where if one side tension spring has fallen off, the transfer roller lowers down onto the drum at an angle, therefore giving a light transfer on either front or rear side, depending on the missing spring.

As I read this fault, I'm betting you either have an issue with both of these belt units, or the transfer charge PWB. My recommendation is to either grab another belt unit (preferably new), or if possible can you get me a scanned image sample? I'll be able to tell what the problem is straight away.

=^..^=