ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

[Desert Rat]

I generally do not have to make scanner adjustments, but this machine has some skew.
It all started with the Doc Feeder skew and I noticed that the image off the glass was skewed.

I am doing the dimensional adjustments and started at the beginning this time.

Alignment at the registration roller: It sez to adjust it so there is not a transfer void. There was not a void when
I started. So I left it alone.

I did the printer related adjustments for registration and got all the dimensions to spec.
Found a mis-print that stated the distance gets longer as the number is increased. It was the opposite.

So I started on the scanner adjustments. This is where I get lost in the weeds. On the first adjustment, Image distortion.
The book gives some pictures, in the pictures it gives examples of the distorted image. The first time I did this I was using
LTR size paper (did not have Ledger size). The image I got looked like the "D" image, so I turned the screw CCW until the image
was straight. And I stopped working at that time. Come Monday I was checking it again and noticed that the LCT drawer was
registering fine but the trays 1 & 2 were not. There was a left to right problem that would not adjust.
So I started the adjustments over thinking I may have missed something. So I got some 11X17 inch paper and started again.
I am having trouble getting past the image distortion adjust. I turned the adjustment screw for mirror 1 rear 3 full turns CW to put it
back where it was when I had started earlier. This is the only screw I turned.
Checked the image and according to the book I had to turn it more CW. As I did It got worse. Turn it back and it was hard to notice a
change.

Where can I go from hear other than crazy?
Has anyone had to do these adjustments? I could use a helping hand cause I am suppose to deliver this unit tomorrow.

Thanks

DR

[blackcat4866]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

I'd like to help you Desert Rat, but the machines that I've had to do those adjustments have not been optically skewed.

I think I would take a step back. I'd wrap some tape around the primary, then measure from your void to the edge of the paper, on all trays, to determine if you are dealing with a paper skew, perhaps specific to a single tray. If that is the case, re-do the loop adjustments. There is a bulletin specifying modified loop values that may help you. If it is truly an optical skew, I would get the LTR paper as perfect as possible, and let the rest be what it will be.

[Desert Rat]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

Blackcat,
Thank you for your reply.
Well, I have gone through the adjustments again and again and No Good!

All the trays are off left to right. In track with the paper feed. I have done the laser start write and the scanner start scan for
primary scan and secondary scan with no luck. Adjusting the registration roller does nothing. And there is still about 3-4mm of twist.

I went back and checked the printer adjustments and some of them were off just after I had got them all into spec.
The reproduction ratio adjustments were OK.
What am I missing?

I'm not sure I understand what your telling me? Wrap tape around the primary, what? Scan lamp?
When I print the grid from svc it is straight on the page but not placed correctly. I believe it was
the B and the D spec that changed.
When I use the scanner from svc, this is where I see the skew. That's why I was adjusting the
mirror 1 rear screw. Three full turns CCW. Maybe I should turn it some more? I usually don't have
to go to the max with adjustments. If I do then I start looking for something wrong.
It was the only screw I turned on the scanner and it helped a little.

Thanks for your input

DR

[blackcat4866]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

I know you're frustrated.

But I haven't heard yet where you've confirmed that your paper is feeding straight. Paper skewing is much more common, and directly related to the loop values. =^..^=

[Desert Rat]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

Blackcat,
I just verified that the paper does feed straight out of the paper trays 1, 2, & 3. As I watch the by pass feed the trail
edge of the paper did not skew as it was fed.
I'm going to look through the book again I must have mis-read or mis-intrupeted something.

DR

[Desert Rat]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

Blackcat,
I took your advice and stepped back and had another look.
This time I made a test target and used an old document that has
border lines on both sides.
I found out that it is only trays 1 & 2 that are off by about 3mm left to right.
(paper feed direction) I double checked the printer and scan adjustment I made
and they are off in the paper feed direction by a couple of mm's. But they are straight.
I would like to find the adjustment to bring the ltr-r and lgl size for better placement.
I did use ltr to set it up this time and trays 1 & 2 with letter look good off the glass
and with the doc fdr.

Through the doc fdr the copies look OK. Ltr is good this is most of the stuff they do.
ltr-r and lgl are still off by about 3mm. I don't believe this will be a problem.

The target I was using before was an old Kodak target for the Ekta-Print series of
analogs. Guess it finally wore out after 25+ years.

Thanks again for your help, if you think of anything that might bring it all into place
please let me know.

DR

[blackcat4866]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

You might try decreasing the loop adjustment for trays #1 and #2. Congratulations on thinking it through. =^..^=

[Desert Rat]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

Congratulations may be premature. When I delivered it the same problem came back.
Black line on lead edge.
I got a chance to talk with a tech here in the valley. He said it sounds like the registration
clutch problem he had a couple of weeks ago. He also mentioned he has seen it on machines
with as little 20K. This unit has about 365K on the meter.
So today I go back hopefully with a clutch.

Thanks for the pep talk, sometimes that's what is needed.

DR

[Desert Rat]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????


The registration clutch did not change anything. Looking through manual, I saw there are
two other clutches involved. The High speed clutch and the low speed clutch. Has anyone
ever had problems with these? I'm looking for something common to all three trays. Is there
anything else, besides the main drive motor?

Thanks

DR

[cpjim]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

we've seen problems with door straps, entire right side door ass'y, and plastic washers on regis roller. can you enlarge the l.e. void and hide the problem?

[blackcat4866]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

we've seen problems with door straps, entire right side door ass'y, and plastic washers on regis roller. can you enlarge the l.e. void and hide the problem?

If the front door strap breaks, and the stub end is left attached at the screw, that piece will not swivel out of the way, holding the front of the door open, and causing a gap at the front of the registration rollers.

I'll reiterate the loop adjustments one more time. They can have intermittent paper skew from one or more paper sources, and are individually settable for each tray. Use the loop settings in this post: http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/to...tml#post431981

One of the fixes that I have not yet attempted is disconnecting the lower vertical path clutch. It sounds a little unorthodox, but I am assured that it works that way: http://www.copytechnet.com/forums/to...tml#post432003

Good luck. If you read any of the referenced posts you'll see I've been down this same road, just Z-folds: the opposite effect compared to paper skew. =^..^=

[Desert Rat]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

cpjim and blackcat,

Thank you for this information. I don't believe the strap on the right side door is broken, but I like the idea of the transfer roller
being out of place. I ran across something like that on a BHC552 where the holder for the transfer roller was broken. I couldn't
really tell it was broken until I took it out.
Here's what I found yesterday. I looked very closely at the registration clutch and found that I could take it apart. Very flimsy clutches.
Reading through the theory of the paper feed I found that this machine has a HI and LO speed clutches for paper transport. I took them
out and found that they too can be taken apart. Another flimsy clutch. The plates showed wear, I cleaned both clutches with a scotch-
brite. (The plates inside). This seemed to help with tray three. Now it only shows a sliver of that black line. And it seemed consistent.
Tray 1 & 2 are still off by the same amount. Today I will go back and clean the feed clutches and apply those settings I downloaded.
And double check the straps.
I hope I'm closing in on this problem today.

Thank you one and all for your help.

DR

[Desert Rat]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

Success

I did double check the door strap and it is in place and in one piece. The transfer roller was also in place
with nothing broken.
The spec from the downloaded settings did not work. All the programs for the ES45 are 4 digits and the
settings for the ES355 series are 3 digits.

I had printed out the adjustments before I started, so I went back and set them back to what
they were when I started. This helped a lot.
I did the adjustments over and it all worked out just right.
Another tech here in town mentioned that I should adjust 05-3042, transport speed for the Doc fdr.
This helped with Doc feeder registration.

Bottom line, The machine is working and the customer is happy and I got paid for the sale.

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. They all helped me.
Hope this post helps someone else to not over think a problem.

DR

[blackcat4866]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????

Congratulations on your success. =^..^=

[Desert Rat]

Re: ES456 scanner registration adjustments ????


The hardest problems I fix are usually the ones I cause. May be I should have been and instructor?
Just think of the bugs I could give the class.